Real Estate Gurus to Avoid!

[Valgolas]

We have a cat named "RC" - short for Retarded Cat.  
I think he spends too much time in the catnip.


It's a shame that there are so many questionable gurus out there pitching high-priced schemes that don't stand a chance for succeeding.  Or they charge outrageous amounts for information that is readily available for free on the internet or in your public library.  They prey upon the hopes and dreams of people who are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.  I don't see how some of them can look at their reflections in the mirror.  I guess they think that there is a sucker born every minute, so they will never run out of people to exploit.  

But you just have to ask yourself, don't you - If they are so good at making money at real estate, why aren't  they spending all their time doing this instead of running seminars and investing schemes?  Where are they really making the bucks?

Follow the money.

[JeffInCT]

That gurus to avoid site is open to anyone with a gripe. I wouldn't consider it a viable source for this info. WHO ISN'T ON THERE?

I have said it before and I'll say it again. My experience has told me that the 'student' won't follow the path that the 'guru' lays out and then blames the guru for his failure.  SNORE!!!!

Jeff

[Valgolas]

Both of the points you make are valid, Jeff.

Just posting a name there without a reason for doing so doesn't give anyone else much to go on, does it?  It would be much more illuminating if there was an explanation, a name and an email address required for the negative posting.  That would cut down on the bomb throwers.  Also, I would like to see the results of their "research" as to why they agreed with the complaints submitted.  To be fair to them, there was a disclaimer at the bottom of the list.

I was surprised to see some of the names there.  Others were not a surprise.

However, by your last statement, you are not saying that all the names on that list are unjustified are you?  Are any of them names you would avoid recommending?

[JeffInCT]

Consider this.  If their names are on that website to begin with it is because they made some significant accomplishment using their respective plans.

As a Carleon Sheets student I have had what I consider to be great success with his program.  And I could not have done it without his program.

I have networked with students who have had little or no success with the program.

I say, Did you pull your 3 bureau credit report and start your credit repair?
Well, No, I was looking at houses first.

Did you cash flow the properties before you look?
I'm not good at math.

Do you have your financial resources in order? Where your down payment may come from?
Oh I have the worksheet, I didn't fill it out.

Are you pre-approved for a mortgage?
I was going to do that when I found a property.

DID YOU EVEN READ THE COURSE BOOK OR LISTEN TO THE CD's ???????

They are not following the course. They just own the course.  THEN, they tell their friends who don't even own the course AND THE FRIENDS start bad mouthing  the course.

I bought the course, I followed the course. I succeeded.

Go take an equity line on your primary residence to pay for your kid's college. I will refinance a property and let the tenants pay for it.  Yea, Carleton.

Great rant, huh?

[kdhastedt]

No, Jeff, I think your pretty much on the money.  Most of Sheets' stuff will work (geographically dependant in some cases, though)...Most of the gurus provide a "track to run in" but folks start to stagger right out of the gate...

I have Sheets' course (purchased cheaply on E-bay quite some time ago) but I still listen to it sometimes and it'll work.

The secret?  You not only have to apply the methods but you also have to apply yourself...folks are looking to sit in their self-made offices and have everyone feed them everything.  We've had some folks like that here lately but I haven't heard from some of them in a bit.  They post, don't get the answers that they like and then have a little "hissy-fit" and then we don't hear from them again.  Probably, that's how their investment business will go, too.  The folks that listen, get the "golden nuggets" from the prople that "know and do" and then apply them usually do OK.

A little rant of my own...and the ones with no guts and/or drive know who they are!

Keith

[Chris2006]

Hello Everyone,
Carlton Sheets helped me get started in real estate also. But, my grandfather was a real estate investor and my mom was a loan processor at a title company.
The reason why I ordered his material was so that I can get an idea of how things work nowadays. That was in 1998. I must admit that I learned some things from his teachings.

[Valgolas]

Mea Culpa!

I totally missed this when I went to the link that started this thread, but if you click on a name you are interested in, it takes you to the reason why the name was reported, and who reported it with their complaint.  Some of them even have email addresses.

This was something I commented on above in a response to Jeff, and I thought it was a defect in these types of lists.  But I had just scrolled down the page to read the names.  I didn't see any reference to clicking on the names for further information.

I only read a couple of them, starting with Robert Abalos and Robert G. Allen, but I see why they made the list if everything reported is true.  It would make me hesitate to get involved with them as well.

[JeffInCT]

I read through some of those names. I saw an example of how someone scammed the public.

I also did not see anyone break down the plan or program and say why it was bull or why it did not or would not work.  I did see a lot of whining about cheating and lying with little evidence to back it up.

I still say the failure doesn't lie with the program.

If 300 people go to the same college and take the same courses, will they all have the same level of success?  Do the poor performers get to run around and say that college sucks because they didn't train me right? Or maybe it was because they partied and didn;t get out of bed and go to class.

Valgolas, you don't have to back down from your original post. That reporter beating on Allen gave no proof or tangible stories.  One complaint about a guru will overshadow 10 success stories.

AND ONE MORE THING!!!!!!!!

I would start a website that supported gurus and listed success stories.... BUT NO ONE WOULD GO THERE!  Why????
Because people love to hear about other people's misery and bad experiences.  It makes their miserable lives seem more tolerable.

Ok I give up, now. Thank you for warning us about the gurus.

[Sannyboy]

IMHO...

It's marketing... a lot of the info is the same thing.  The same thing you can get at a library, the same thing you can get at a book store and the same thing you can get here by listing.

There is a modicum of truth and fact there, if not, I don't care how slick the salesperson is, it wouldn't last.

Imagin a seminar that teaches you how to breath underwater, "the fish do it and so can you!"  If it is packaged fancy enough someone will shell out HEC (hard earned cash) to buy it... only to see their investment drowned.

Seems to me the game is find something that is true that someone has had some success at doing, package it in way that it looks new or different then charge big bucks for it.  And if someone buys it and actually works it and succeeds...well, that's one genuine testimonial to go with the others that the team thought up!

Just my 2c's

[DFWHoldings]

To reitterate what KD said,

Look at it like a restaurant review. If you've eaten at a restaurant and you had a wonderful time you probably tell a couple of people. If you had a HORRIBLE time you would tell 10 people. That's just what people do. The story is more 'interesting' to people if it's bad. Why is that? Who knows, but it's a fact.

That being said, if you had a favorite restaurant that you've gone to for years but someone said they had the worst time ever there, would you suddenly stop going?

[bluechipdc]

I totally agree with JeffinCT and some of the others who have defended some of the GURUs.  It is easy for people to slam them, but if students apply some of the strategies and set their goals, follow the plans, etc.  they can and should succeed.  

I remember a guy at lunch at my last job asked me how much I spent on all of my "get rich quick real estate stuff".  I told him that I usually spent anywhere from $3K to $10K per year.  That guy told me I was crazy and that I should be putting the money into a mutual fund.  I have purchased Carleton Sheet's program about 3 times now, Ron LeGrand's info and Scott Scheels stuff.  I have not been as diligent as I could be, but make a pretty good living doing real estate full time now.

Give some of these programs a chance and apply some of the strategies that seem to work best.

Never stop learning.

To your success!!

[Valgolas]

True, Blue.  (Sorry...I couldn't resist.)  The right education is an investment that pays a good return for life.

It has been said often, "If you think education is expensive, you should really hate the price of ignorance."

Or as Ol' Ben Franklin wrote, “Empty the coins of your purse into your mind, and your mind will fill your purse with coins.”


But I still have doubts about some of the so called "gurus".  We have had some of them come into town and teach things that are clearly illegal in our state, and other states as well, for that matter.  If the attendees took them at face value and implemented what they were teaching, they would find themselves in deep do-do before long.  They would then pay for a really expensive real life seminar.

I was sitting in on one of these while the "guru" explained a technique.  I thought that he must be joking, but he was not.  When I raised my had an mentioned the fact that this was illegal here, and I even gave the statute that prohibited this practice along with the penalties involved.  I was told that my kind of negative thinking would prevent me from ever amounting to anything in this business.  I might as well leave now and go back to my job, I was told.  People laughed, and the "guru" went on.  They didn't want to hear the truth - they wanted to continue to be "True Believers".

Ah, well...good for them.  If they follow his advice, they will find out soon enough.   Similar incidents happened to friends of mine, who are very successful in this business, with other "gurus" who came to town.  

[bluechipdc]

Valgolas,
You raise excellent points, and I agree with you that people should not follow blindly.  I think it makes sense to have an excellent grasp of the concepts, understand which concepts apply to which situations, and then hire experts such as local attorneys, title companies, etc. draw up the paperwork.

Your points remind me of the TV show....."Flip this House"  Have you ever noticed the details about their deals.  Ex.  Purchase Price: $100,000.  Fix Up Costs = $30,000, Sold Price on the back-end $150,000.  Total Profit = $20,000.00   I hope people are not watching that show thinking that is the real profit.

Thanks for the Ben Franklin quote....I love that stuff.

Your points are respected and hopefully read by others on this post.

[Infowell]

'I totally agree with JeffinCT and some of the others who have defended some of the GURUs."

I've made money by utilzing methods taught by Robert Allen & Albert Lowry.

Or you could just tape a guru @ dinner. :

[Beemnseven]

Your points remind me of the TV show....."Flip this House"  Have you ever noticed the details about their deals.  Ex.  Purchase Price: $100,000.  Fix Up Costs = $30,000, Sold Price on the back-end $150,000.  Total Profit = $20,000.00   I hope people are not watching that show thinking that is the real profit.

I've seen the show and I actually find it very entertaining.  There are colorful personalities and the dialogue is pretty funny sometimes.  But I've also noticed how there are many details that are left out of each episode.  I think that's mainly due to editing constraints.  Hopefully, there aren't too many people who watch the show for actual training in flipping properties.  To me, I see it for what it is -- entertainment.