Can you make a living from bird dogging?

[parei78]

Can it be done? Anyone here making a good living just bird dogging?

[yrush2000]

Depends on how much money you want to earn..Typically you will get $500-$1000 per deal. Of course if you giving many deals to someone, occassionally they will probably throw you alittle extra because they are making a tons of money off your leads.

So just think, if you can bird dog 10homes a month, thats $5000-10000 a month...

So YES you can live off it, till you have plenty of cash to go out and become the investor..Plus once you build a relationship with the local investors, then you can start asking for advice and tips..maybe split some deals..

[CharlottePlayer]

Perai, i would not suggest that you become a bird dog, in order to be a bird dog you have hope that someone will be honest with when they close.  What i would suggest is that you become a wholesaler.  Its the samething as a bird dog, just the advanced version.  Just allowing yourself to be a bird dog means you accept scraps, or it means that you are simply at the bottom of the food chain.  Becoming a wholesaler will net you 2500-10,000 dollars and you get your money up front.  You dont want to depend on some wannabe to close a deal that have as much a chance at closing a deal as a dog playing a flute.  A wholesaler means that you know whats going on and that you have graduated from the school of hard knocks.

[Lady Bird-dog]

So, when you say become a wholesaler; you mean getting the property under contract? I know I'm don't feel comfortable with the contract part because I don't have $$, which is why I'm a Bird-dog  I would love to be advanced though.

[only1minya]

again today, i agree with charlotte.  you dont learn to swim until you jump in the water.  i would suggest finding creative ways to fund your deals.  sometimes, the folks that fund them take them off your hands too.  i birddogged for quite awhile and i realized that i was learning enough about the business to wholesale for myself.  i developed a marketing plan, i read everything i could get my hands on and i met folks.  most importantly i joined a reia.  

by the way, i hope you have a contract with whoever you birddog for, this is called cya and helps you become comfortable with contracts.

[Lady Bird-dog]

Well, I don't plan to bird-dog forever. I just want to understand the biz better before swimming. I'm going to my first seminar this Thursday and I another group in early Feb.  

I'm sad to say that I was sent a contract but haven't signed it yet. I've read it over and over and I don't know. I guess I should make the changes I want, sign it  and send it to my investor.

[MichelleMorrow]

I have to agree with Charlotte on this one also. If you are not yet ready to wholesale and would prefer to bird dog, get your contracts in writing. Also check with your atty first because bird dogging is illegal in many states. Good luck and go get 'em!  

[salemgurl]

I found one property but real estate prices are dropping here in Massachusetts.  I thought I was going strong but I still haven't met others who are interested in Bird Dogs and here in MA, only seasoned investors understand the term Bird Dog....which means I have to explain to folks.

Not a good thing.

I'm also not ready to become a whole-seller until I learn a bit more about real estate, and I would truly prefer to have a mentor instead of doing this alone...hold handing is best for some people (so please don't look down on it).   Just my .02.

thank you board!

[wells]

Investors may not know the term Bird Dog are probably still interested in your services. Long before I decided to get involved with REI myself, the REIs and Realtor in my family would tell me that if I ever came across properties to let them know and if they were able to move on them they’d “take care of me.” And sure enough they’d slide me some nice change. It wasn’t that I looked for properties I just looked into any vacant or rundown properties I saw here and there. They never used the term Bird Dog until I started using it, and that was after learning last summer that it was an actual business. I soon found out that a few people don’t take you seriously when you declare yourself to be a dog of any sort, so I started using a more “sophisticated” term--Property Locator--for investors, and more “blue collar” terms--Real Estate Jobber (a la Barry Grimes) or Property Scout--for rehabber-investors. It seems to make a difference or it could be my imagination

Looking back and considering the legwork I did, I do wish I’d known about wholesaling instead of Bird Dogging. I could have gotten $3000 instead of $1000 although $1000 cash wasn’t anything to sneeze at. Still, I feel that Bird Dogging is a great way to learn what investors want so that you can intelligently acquire assignment-worthy contracts. It’s like paid training. Plus you can build a healthy buyers list as you go along.

But I suggest that anyone who is Bird Dogging consider it only as a stepping stone, not a stopping point, and to plan to first progressively then aggressively move into more lucrative aspects of REI. Even though I am trying to do wholesale and set up L/Ps now, I feel am still in the "progressive" stage. But before the summer hits I plan to be sitting at the big table  :D

[salemgurl]

DWells,

Good information and I love the "terms". Thank you!!!

I'm starting off slowly (because I have no cash) and will birddog to get the cash I need. Then I'll be able to either wholesale or purchase properties....good plan I think.

[Roger J]

Interesting points on this thread.

deborahwells makes a very good one.  The term birddog is a bit demeaning, and her names are much better.

However, where the issue really lies is the sheer and utter confusion on WHAT a birddog actually does.

A wholesaler is simply an 'advanced' version of a birddog IF you're properly birddogging.  As a birddog, your only job is to find "potential" deals for an investor.  It's the investors job to close them.  Simply saying, "there's an abandoned house on xyz street, the owner's name is xxx and here's their number" is what a birddog does.  Or "I got a lead that xxx is interested in selling their property and needs to move it fast."  That's what a birddog does.  They do NOT call sellers.  They do NOT negotiate terms.  They do NOT do anything more than point out the leads for the investor.  They also do NOT have any liability issues because they are only supplying information.  No negotiating, and no contracts to sell/assign.  They also have no money invested in deals and no risk if they don't close.

By contrast, a wholesaler must find the deal, negotiate the deal, sign a contract, usually put money down, find a buyer and work the closing from both ends.  There is risk involved.  Both monatary and legally.

As far as getting a contract when birddogging, you can if you want, but why bother?  If you're only going to be netting around $250-500 per deal, it's hardly worth a contract.  If someone doesn't pay you, then you have to take them to court to get it.  In my area, it would cost more in costs than I'd be suing for, so a contract had limited use.  By far more helpful to me when I started was a good old fashioned word of honor agreement.  If I gave someone a lead that closed and they didn't pay me for it, then I knew not to deal with them again, EVER.  Plus, I passed along that info whenever I could.  Dishonest people rarely stay in business (at least, this business) long.  A bad rep in this business is death bell for the investor.

In answer to the original question:  It would be VERY difficult to make a living as a REI birddog unless you live in a large market area with alot of active investors that you can network with.  Also, if you were good enough as a birddog to actually make a living doing it, then you would probably have (or should have) moved on to wholesaling/investing yourself.

The primary reason a person becomes a birddog is so that they can learn the business from a successful investor.

Raj

[robertlaf]

This is helpful info. I just started bird dogging, locating the proerties that are vacant is about all I do now but hope to increase that. I can't wholesale yet. I put out 1000;s of circulars a week so I spot them all the time.
Are there websites which you can look up addresses and get info?

I have 2 investors who want to work with me. One said he would sign a contract which I don't care too much about. If he wants to cheat me he won't get any more business from me and how would I know anyyway? Maybe I should sign one with him, I don't know.

I am giving each half my properties, not the same ones and see who makes deals and pays me.
One of my investors has a bus driver who is offering him vacant houses with a worksheet with info about the house and pictures on each one in Dallas. The birddog wants $10 a house. It looks like a good deal to me if I was an investor but my investor says he doesn't have the money.
So any tips for me would be appreciated Thanks.

[salemgurl]

On that same topic...
#1.  How should one approach investors?
#2.  What standard contract form can and should we "bird dogs" use and is it
       available through http://www.microsoft.com (they have 100's of
       basic contracts that can be edited)
#3.  Many cities have "Registry of Deeds" websites (ex: www.citydeeds.com)
#4.  Investors want to know and what to bring to the investor....
        a. the "location"....I don't give out the address just the general area
        b. if the building is vacant or lived in and for sale by owner or realtor
        c. cost of rehab  (i use the Robyn Thompson method www.robynthompson.com)
        d. ARV - After Repair Value  
        e. Comps (to figure out the AVERAGE price the property will sell for ARV)
#5.   Many people have asked what to charge and it has basically been given in a few
        responses from 10%, 10% for information/10% after sell and $500 - $1000.
#6.  Pricing depends on the individuals involved but what else?

I need to learn more terms (I've read them and forgot the majority of them). So, my suggestion is for the seasoned investors to start using the terms "investors" use so us "NEWBIES" get comfortable and familiar with the correct terminology! ~ Thanks  
-------
I want to earn in a couple of months at least $20,000 so that I will be able to move on and put down some money for an invest in my first property (only because I don't have a steady work history and my credit is between 600 and 700).

This is helpful info. I just started bird dogging, locating the proerties that are vacant is about all I do now but hope to increase that. I can't wholesale yet. I put out 1000;s of circulars a week so I spot them all the time.
Are there websites which you can look up addresses and get info?

I have 2 investors who want to work with me. One said he would sign a contract which I don't care too much about. If he wants to cheat me he won't get any more business from me and how would I know anyyway? Maybe I should sign one with him, I don't know.

I am giving each half my properties, not the same ones and see who makes deals and pays me.
One of my investors has a bus driver who is offering him vacant houses with a worksheet with info about the house and pictures on each one in Dallas. The birddog wants $10 a house. It looks like a good deal to me if I was an investor but my investor says he doesn't have the money.
So any tips for me would be appreciated Thanks.

[salemgurl]

Can it be done? Anyone here making a good living just bird dogging?

Is there anyone making or who has made a good living bird dogging?  That question hasn't been answered yet!

[$Cash$]

As I read this thread I think back when I first started serious investing about 11 years ago.  After a few months I realized that if had some folks out looking for deals for me and trained them, then my revenues would go up. As far as I was concerned they would be compensated very well for a job well done.

So I started working with Bird Dogs many years ago and I guess you can you can use any name you want, but a rose by any other name is still a rose.  Or if there is great money in raking leaves hand me a rake and call me a rakeman.

My bird dogs have made up to $100K a year and the first bird dog I trained went onto a career in investing and is a mult-millionaire today.

The bottom line here is if you find the right investor or investors and can produce you will not only make some serious money, but if you want to go on to be an invester in your own right then the training you will receive will be invaluable.

What happens to the vast majority of new people who want to break into this industry, they try to start without some hands on basic training or the proper guidance from a investor/mentor, there is nothing like watching an investors deal from beginning to end with your own eyes to give a new person the investing knowledge and skills to apply that knowledge.

If someone wants to mentor you this is fine, but have them mentor you by watching them put deals together from the beginning to the end, this way you will find out quick whether they are mentors or investor/mentors there is a difference,

Remember we all have different skill levels, some folks need to get over the No Liability, No Fear and No Money level, bird dogging done properly is a great way to do that.

John $Cash$ Locke