tile entire kitchen first then put appliances?

[ryanpal]

after speaking with a handyman at home depot expo, my father decided he'd like to tile the entire kitchen floor before we put in the appliances, cabinets etc.  

the logic behind this is that if we ever have to replace or take out the dishwasher for example, we don't have to rip up the floor to get it out.  

anyone have any feedback on this or foresee any problems.  as i understand it (and the way it is done at my parents house) is the tile was layed down up to the cabinets, diswasher, oven...

ryan

[kdhastedt]

If I have everything out, I tile then put the cabinets, appliances, etc. in...

If I am leaving the cabinets in, I take out the moveables (DW, stove, fridge, etc. and tile up to the cabinets/walls, etc.  Depending on the rest of the room, I will put in a kick board, a baseboard, or a quarter-round shoe to dress it up a bit...

Keith

[WGGJR]

I agree with Keith, It depends on your conditions. Like he said remove the stove, dishwasher, etc., You may have to raise the counter a bit to reinstall the dishwasher, but it is a lot easier than taking out all of the cabinets and then reinstalling them. But if you have a clean slate to start with, tile the whole kitchen

Weldon

[aak5454]

I put cabinets in and then tile; I like to tile under dishwasher and stove, but especially with the dishwasher you have to check the cleanance with the counter top.

I do not tile under cabinets as it is more likely for people to change the floor than the cabinets; also if they do ripped out the cabinets, then they are probably going blow out everything and start from scratch.

You can probably go either way and be OK.

[JaredfromIndiana]

Wow, good idea Keith.  I would have never thought of that.  

[Xeniarehabber]

OK, this is from a professional remodeler.  I can tell you from experience that it is easier to tile to your walls than it is to your cabinets.  Your cuts don't have to be as accurate, and your job will look more professional.  Chances are, you won't save that much money by just tiling up to the cabinets anyway.  Also, as to the last reply, if you are tiling on a slab, and later on the tiles have to be busted up, good luck.  If you are tiling on subfloor where you have to lay down durock or cement board, then absolutely you are better off going under the cabinets.  Standard height from floor to top of countertops is 35".  If you set your cabinets, then lay your durock down and then tile on top of this, you are losing up to 3/4" distance to your cabinets.  If you try to set your stove or dishwasher after this, you are going to have problems.  Could be a problem with the fridge too if space is tight from floor up to bottom of 'ove the fridge cabinet'.  

[ryanpal]

thanks for the replies guys...we put the tiles down first.

unfortunately due to time contraints and crazy schedules from contractors...i have to paint the kitchen AFTER all the new tile and cabinets are isntalled....what a pain that will be...trying nto to get a drop on anyting...putting up tape etc...oh the "joy"

ryan

[julyfilt]

For me I will tile first the floor then put the cabinets, appliances, and anything that would do better and needs in my kitchen...


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[PositiveOutlook]

ryanpal,

I also do remodeling professionally, but own a cabinetshop as well and make custom cabinets, countertops, furniture, etc...  I've installed alot of tile over the years (flooring, walls, bathroom)...

Industry standard for cabinetry is 34.5" plus 1.5" for countertop, for a total floor to top of counter height of 36", with Cabinets being 24" deep...  Now, we do custom, and will do whatever the client wants, but the reason for these measurements are appliance standard heights...

That said, if you are using durock/concrete backerboard as the subfloor, you should be fine if you choose to install the tile first, but this also has alot to do with what style kitchen you have - U-shaped, Galley, L-Shaped, Straight-run, etc...  The reason it is important is that homes continue to settle over time, and in the wrong style kitchen (i.e. - U or L-Haped) you could run into spider/stress crack on the corners from movement... it happens, though with the right substrate (1/2") you limit your chances of this this but don't remove it...

Personally, we install the Cabs first (on top of matching height floor build-up to allow for the flooring material, which maintains the height needed for appliances), then the flooring up to it for two (2) reasons...

1. If you ever do replace that floor, and NOT the cabinetry, it will be a MAJOR PITA to remove the tile where it runs under the cabinets (try picture getting tooling underneath the toe-kick and trying NOT to damage the cabinets in the process, especially at the end of the cabinets - of course it can be done, but it takes more time and preparation to do it.  It is MUCH EASIER to chisel UP TO the cabinet and lift the material out, than it is to cut and chisel it out up next to the cabinet...

2. If you are trying to avoid cuts, you will have to most likely do it anyway when you hit the wall or shim it out.  By stopping at the cabinet line, this method saves you labor and material costs...  On a standard 8 x 10 L-shaped kitchen, assuming 12 x 12 tiles, this will save you approximately 32-36 tiles, the mastick to install it, and the time/labor also... much easier and cheaper to rip a $10-$15 sheet to ply for build-up...  I never understood the allure of spending more money and time to install tiling under cabinets... you can achieve the same results using ply-build-up for much less time and money...


Think about it - if you tiled UNDER the cabs, and you ever did replace the flooring, the tile would now be the build-up that I am talking about...

When remodeling a kitchen, we typically do it in this order... Rip-out, any windows roughed-in, any Electrical or Plumbing rough-out, Replace exterior wall Insulation, Sheetrock, Spackle, Paint, Cabinets, Countertop, any Electric or Plumbing finish, any tiled backsplash (which are not done behind the cabs or countertop, BTW) and flooring (tile-cutter comes out once)... THEN moldings (casing and base pre-painted if painted or pre-finished if wood, crown) right to the floor (no need for 1/4-round as it is a finished product)...   


In any case, even my fellow professionals disagree about this...
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Kitchen_Cabinets_and_Floors__Which.html

After all the info... do what you feel is right for you...  but IMHO, you are better off using ply build-up, installing the cabinets, and then cutting right up the to cabiinet line...  It will be a cleaner product... and one that can be more easliy replaced in the future...  If you pay someone to install your next flooring they WILL charge you extra (I know we do) for the extra work involved in preparation and labor that is involved in removing existing flooring from the cabinet line... Obviously, the only exception to this is liinoleum, as there is enough room in the levelers on appliances to accomodate for this...

One last thought is that if you decide to install the tile first, you should purchase rosin paper to protect the floor during the remaining install...  When the client wants us to install flooring under the cabs first, we use the 2' x 2' cushion mats that connect coming out from the cabinets with rosin paper on top, so if any tools are dropped, the floor is protected...  We also install the rosin paper to protect the floors and allow for other trades doing their work (i.e. - electrician and plumber)...

Good luck and let us know how it turns out...