Bird dog Illinois Law

[Kocol]

]Does anybody know the laws for bird dogging in Illinois?  
Legally also what is the difference between a real estate agent vrs. a bird dog under the law?
I would appreciate all the help I can get in the matter.
Also if anyone is training bird dogs I would like to hear from them.[/b]

[Tony Chicago]

I'm training bird dogs.  I have 3 of them right now.

[jjjapd]

lol

[Helixpoint]

Well I know it is NOT legal in PA

[veilside]

Why is it illegal?

[Helixpoint]

Here is a good post. Mostly about Wholesaling (LEGAL) and Nancy talks about birddogging
http://www.reiclub.com/forums/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=18109

[Kocol]

Folks I'm afraid It is illegal to practice bird dogging in Illinois withgout a License.  I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice but go to www.idfpr.com click on real estate freq questions, decide for yourself.  It's really sad I wanted to get into it so much it could have changed my life!  But I'm not going to do anything that might be illegal.    

[DannyTheGreat]

I'm no lawyer but I've read the law in many states regarding the scope of a broker/ agent and I've yet to read one that couldn't be interpreted in different ways. A good lawyer would tear most of these laws apart in court. It's kind of like saying word-of-mouth is illegal. Until I see some landmark court cases saying otherwise, my opinion is that it is certainly legal and I encourage beginners to do it.

[Kocol]

It really would be a good idea to got to www.idfpr.com before making that statement.  It really is pretty clear.

[DannyTheGreat]

It really would be a good idea to got to www.idfpr.com before making that statement.  It really is pretty clear.
LOL. Since I hate making incorrect statements, you can best believe I looked through that site before saying anything. Copy and paste the exact wording from that site or send me a direct link to where you interpreted bird dogging as being illegal.

[Kocol]

Ok but this is the last time.  I do not want to argue with you.  But it is pretty clear.  I have done the research for you. Had you really gone to the sight and explored it you would have found the following.  Remember just because somthing is being practiced doesn't automaticly make it legal.  I'm not a lawyer either but the following seems very self explanitory.

When do I need an Illinois real estate license?
A. A person needs a real estate license if they provide assistance which is in any way intended to result in the sale or lease of real estate. The definition of the word "broker" under the Act provides 11 examples of the types of "assistance" that require a real estate -license. Included are: representing clients in the negotiation of real estate sales contracts or leases, and issuing advertisements for the sale, purchase or lease of real estate.

The assistance must be provided for others. Accordingly, a person who buys, sells or leases real estate as a "principal" does not need a real estate license.

Compensation is required. Therefore, a person who provides assistance on a real estate transaction to a friend or relative, without compensation, does not need a license.
 



Yes. Exemptions from the license requirement are set forth in Section 5-20 of the Act. In other words, some individuals and entities who engage in the “practice of real estate” in Illinois do not need to obtain a real estate license from DBRE.

Included in the exemptions are owners of real estate and the employees of the owners of real estate. See Section 5-20(1) of the Act. Accordingly, owners of real estate and their employees may advertise the sale or lease of their property and negotiate real estate contracts and leases without a license. Note that for this exemption to apply, (i) the “practice of real estate” must be limited to those properties “owned,” (ii) the employment relationship must be per a “W-2" wage basis, not per an independent contract basis, and (iii) the employer must hold title to the real estate, not just have a financial interest in the real estate (there must be a direct connection between the unlicensed employee and the holder of title).

Also included in the exemptions are (i) attorneys acting under an executed and recorded power of attorney and (ii) attorneys whose services for a real estate consumer are limited to the practice of law. See Section 5-20(2) of the Act. Note that attorneys who engage in the practice of real estate must obtain a real estate license (attorneys are exempt from the pre-license education but attorneys still must pass the exam and obtain a real estate license to practice real estate).

It is illegal for an Illinois real estate licensee to pay a fee for the referral of a real estate client to any individual or business entity that does not have a real estate license. For example, an Illinois real estate licensee cannot pay a referral fee to an unlicensed friend or neighbor. Nor can an Illinois real estate licensee pay a referral fee to an unlicensed professional otherwise involved in real estate transactions, e.g., to an unlicensed employee of a mortgage company.

It is legal for an Illinois licensee to pay or receive a referral fee to/from another Illinois real estate licensee. It is also legal for an Illinois real estate licensee to pay or receive a referral fee to/from a person who has a real estate license in another state. See Rule 1450.205(a).

[DannyTheGreat]

Maybe you should reread what you just sent. I thought you may of found info that I didn't but I was wrong.

A person needs a real estate license if they provide assistance which is in any way intended to result in the sale or lease of real estate. The definition of the word "broker" under the Act provides 11 examples of the types of "assistance" that require a real estate -license. Included are: representing clients in the negotiation of real estate sales contracts or leases, and issuing advertisements for the sale, purchase or lease of real estate.

By the given definition, "assistance" is representing a buyer or seller, negotiating of contracts, advertising a sale or purchase. Which does a bird dog do?

It is illegal for an Illinois real estate licensee to pay a fee for the referral of a real estate client to any individual or business entity that does not have a real estate license. For example, an Illinois real estate licensee cannot pay a referral fee to an unlicensed friend or neighbor. Nor can an Illinois real estate licensee pay a referral fee to an unlicensed professional otherwise involved in real estate transactions, e.g., to an unlicensed employee of a mortgage company.

This states that a RE licensee cannot pay a fee for referrals of a client, and licensees paying fees to one another. Absolutely nothing to do with a bird dog giving an investor the heads up about a property and receiving a fee for it. Bird dogs have no part in the sale of real property, they provide no assistance to either buyer or seller.

[DannyTheGreat]

Your right though, it is pretty clear.

[terryall]

I agree with you Danny.  Birddogs are not involved in the transaction so it is not an illegal practice (as long as you keep them out of the transaction).

[enricosuave]

What if we looked at this from a 'worst case' scenario?   First, a bird-dogger is seeking to provide a good lead to an investor on the premise of being paid for it.  He provides the lead and then.. since there are no contracts between the investor and himself, or the bird-dogger and the Seller of the property.. the Investor decides to stiff the bird-dogger and deal directly with the Seller, leaving the bird-dogger empty handed.  This is no fun for the bird-dogger.

So, to avoid the worst-case scenario, the bird-dogger gets the Seller under contract to either "purchase directly or indirectly through an investor 3rd party" and now has a layer of protection regarding the investor.  But.. what he's just done is made himself, by definition, an agent who is seeking recompense for the securing of a buyer.

Now.. all arguments aside, if there ends up being a suit or charges made, my belief (and I'm speaking from my belief, not legal precedence).. is that the judge is going to take a look at the actions of this bird-dogger and say, "Quacks like an agent, Walks like an agent, but not licensed as an Agent" and this bird-dogger is now in a pretty bad spot that, I, personally wouldn't want to be in.

Those are my thoughts.  Some people play these sort of things on the safe side, others on the aggressive side till they get caught.  Like my Mom says; "To each his own, but better safe than sorry."

My dos centavos,