Call me crazy, but what's the REAL intent behind all this crisis?

[NJbird_dog]

Guys,

There are some really informative posts on this forum from really intelligent people on the current situation with the economy, bailouts, RE boom/bust, etc. But what I have trouble understanding is, what are some views on the untold story behind all this?

What untold story you ask?

There was post on this not too long ago, about booms/busts being manipulated by the Feds, international bankers, etc. It's all explained extremely well in this documentary:
Money Masters: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&ei=j0jiSNHeEJKYrQLU4pmhCw&q=money+masters

The scary part is, it's all very true and very relative to the happenings of today. Especially the cause and effect of the real estate boom and bust during the past few years. It can be summed up as "History repeats itself", but does it really? These economic cycles seem to be calculated and rigged more than "natural" cycles.

FDJAKE has excellent posts. He saw this coming over a year ago, because apparently, he's lived through it before. So uhm, does history repeat itself, or are the same switches being pulled to rob the wealth of this nation and put it in the hands of the elite minority behind the closed doors?

I bring this up because after reading all these intelligent posts, I ask myself - Why doesn't anyone mention the bigger picture in all this? Do you all believe there is an actual bigger goal being achieved, i.e., one world government? Is this country turning to socialism or fascism? This borderlines conspiracy explanations (Note: I said explanations, not 'theories') and those explanations do a damn good job of explaining our current state in this economy and on this planet. Instead of the "whoops! we're in a crisis and don't know what to do, so let's give our power to the government as usual and allow them to make decisions for us, which ALWAYS takes away our rights and causes us to pay for the solution. But hey, it's for our own good!" that's being sold through the media.

Why is the federal reserve not part of the government? Why do they have more influence over congress instead of vice versa? Why are they not regulated? Why does the media refer to them as "our government"? Where does our income tax money go? Does it really matter if Obama or McCain win? What about revolutionary thinking like Ron Paul who asserts that income tax is unconstitutional and we should shut down the IRS, the illegal federal reserve. He gets no love from the media.. hmm, why?

This economy is technically under a financial-martial-law. From my limited experience in real estate, I will never believe that this wasn't all forecasted in the higher levels. I'll never believe that these ARM mortgages were a big surprise to some of the most intelligent financial people on earth. Yes, it was fueled by greed but only at the lower levels. The guy making $6/hr that I helped avoid foreclosure should have never been approved for a 100% financed $385k mortgage. NEVER. But if you follow the documentary I posted, it clearly explains how every boom is created by easing lending guidelines and flooding the economy with money (well, electronic money backed by nothing). And every bust is caused by tightening lending restrictions and calling in loans. So yea, "history repeats itself".

But anyway, this is a loaded topic and I'd really like to get some views on the truth behind what's going on. The truth behind this imaginary world that we live in where most, if not everything, is controlled and manipulated and the SHEEPLE are totally asleep to all this.

[Damivon]

Maybe this will help you:


http://video.google.nl/videosearch?q=debt+money&hl%20=nl&emb=0&aq=0&oq=debt+mon#

Greetz, Ray

[fdjake]

I don't buy the one world goverment theory for a second.

Here's all you need to know.....

We just came out of a period of time when SCHOOL TEACHERS (and others) rountinley drove a leased Mercedes Benz to work, they live in $400,000 houses and have a house cleaner come to their home once a week.  They have a mortgage that is AT LEAST 30 years in duration, $10,000 in credit card debt, and a NEGATIVE .6 annual savings rate.
Their friends watched them actumulate all this "STUFF" so they decided...."Hey, if they can do it, so can we!!!!!"

Let's review som highlights from the last decade.....then tell me how some Goverment "plan" caused this mess........

1)  Pre-construction condos in Florida during the boom were selling so fast people were LITERALLY CAMPING OUT at sales offices IN TENTS inorder to get thier deposits down before all the condos sold out!!!!
Fast forward to 2008....those same people are still CAMPING OUT...but this time it's because they not only lost the condos but the home they had used as an ATM machine.

2)  Ferrari has a 2 YEAR WAITING LIST to get a new car!!!!  This ALONE should have been a gigantic FLARE being shot into the sky for anyone with half a brain.  It got so ridiculus that Ferrari dealers wouldn;t even put you on "THE LIST" unless you ALREADY owned a Ferrari that you purchased from THEM!!!!  WOW...have times changed....stopped by Foxboro Ferrari yesterday......I can buy ALL THE NEW Ferrari's I want (not that I am) and guess what?????  If I buy witCASH they can cut me a SUPER DEAL!!!!!

3)  Woman talk about what a GREAT INVESTMENT a $2500 handbag is  Manufactors such as COACH can NOT keep up with demand and their stock prices go into the stratosphere.
You might want to check those stock prices today???  Seems the Mrs. aren;t out buying as many $2500 bags as they were a few years ago

4)  The BANKERS!!!!  WE......let me say this again.......WE, as in, our fellow AMERICANS, hocked EVERYTHING they had to buy STUPID SH*T.  The BANKERS simply filled the demand for those loans.  I hear all this OUTRAGE over the WALL STREET BANKERS.....Are you kidding me????
Show me ONE that signed someone elses name on one of these loans.
These people got EXACTLY what they deserved.  Mike Rossi and I aren't up to our eye balls.....we didn't sign on the dotted line for pre-construction condos mortgages....Will it hurt us if this goes to sh*T???  Of coarse it will....Will we survive?????  ABSOLUTELY!!!!  and....we'll probably BOTH make some money off this.....the people with CASH always do.

5)  McMANSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The term alone says it all!!
Let's build a 6000 sq. ft. home that 2 PEOPLE will live in!!!!!  All to show EVERYONE how SUCESSFUL WE ARE!!!!!!!!  Hey......how's that working for you?????  Want to know what these MORONS are doing now????
Learning how long a 40 year mortgage REALLY is!!!!

6)  I could go on and on......WE did this to OURSELVES.  ADMIT IT!!  LEARN FROM IT....and most of all.......GET OVER IT.
I've got a pile of money in various banks and other instituations spread out over this PLANET.  That money is in GOLD, stock, CASH, and believe it or not LAND.  The beauty of buying LAND during this type of collapse is two fold....
    1) You can absolutely STEAL it now.
    2) I don't pay INSURANCE on it, or heat, upkeep, electricity, water, just minimal taxes on raw land.  I have NO MORTGAGES on this land.  I will continue to add to these holdings, because as sure as I predicted this mess, the turn around will also come.  That land will be worth 5 times what I paid for it when the same idiots that caused this go looking for their new homes.  My guess is 10 years or so and they'll be looking up land eveidence records and sending me notes in the mail.
Just like they did in 2005 to 2007.  That land???  When did I buy that land????  You guessed it......during the last real estate bust we had in the early 1990's.   Lot's I purchased for $10,000 later sold for $250,000.

NOTHING CHANGES BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE!!!

Same circus, different clowns!!!

[NJbird_dog]

fdjake,

I agree with everything you just said, except the first line denying the one world government explanation (not theory).

I'm not playing the victim here and saying that people were set up. As I said, it was all greed on the lower levels. Every point you just made is due to our consumerism nation where people "work jobs they hate so they can buy things they don't need."

But that doesn't get to the root of the problem. That was all the after effect. Just like too much cholesterol will clog your arteries and certain medications will thin your blood to pass through those clogged arteries rather than treating the cause of it (lowering cholesterol).

The way it's repeatedly done:
Loosen lending restriction, cause a boom.
Tighten lending restriction, cause a bust.

The human-factor in that says this: Loosen lending restrictions, PEOPLE aka SHEEPLE WILL BUY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THEY CAN. Our society is based on consumerism. I heard a religious scholar recently make a good point: The center of society used to be a place of worship, now it's been replaced by malls. After 9/11, Bush told everyone to GO SHOPPING and continue on with your lives. It's like throwing some rice to a bunch of pigeons. You know already what the reaction will be because like you said:

Nothing changes because people don't change.
Same circus different clowns.


fdjake, I think you're an intelligent, experienced guy and I've been following your posts like many others on this forum, but the drawback to being intelligent and often being right is that you won't acknowledge new thoughts or ideas because much of your knowledge is based on experience. I'd like for you to critically analyze the other side of the story, which btw, there's a growing number of millions in this country who are waking up to the truth of what's going on behind the scenes.

All your examples are on the lower levels driven by greed. This includes the mortgage reps who blatantly coined phrases like "Liar's loan". How many of them stopped for a second and asked themselves "Gee, I wonder why I'm allowed to give loans to people that just aren't qualified. Oh well, everyone else is doing it. Let me just make my money too!".

I think if we accept that people are sheeple and WILL follow the majority in every industry, then it's no surprise that we brought this upon ourselves.

But that doesn't get to the root of the problem. Why were lending restrictions so loose? Why didn't the financial gurus use 3rd-grade logic to realize that ARM mortgages would have failed? How can anyone with a pulse think that real estate would continue to appreciate until 2010 and beyond, which btw, I believe the president of National Association of Realtors wrote a book on that topic. Needless to say it was a total flop and last time I checked had nothing but negative reviews on amazon.com.

Another concept being repeated:
Problem - Reaction - Solution
THEY cause the problem
WE, the people, react
THEY provide the solution which benefits THEM.

Look at the bailout. We're damned if we do and we're more damned if we don't. THEY CAUSED IT!! We, as sheeple, react and ask for HELP!! Then THEY provide solutions which BENEFITS THEM! Feds take 85% of AIG, 30% stake in Bear Sterns, consolidate banks, and use this PROBLEM to control the entire US financial system.

How many of you are familiar with the AMERO aka the new currency set to replace the dollar in tune with the north american union, which combines Canada, US, and Mexico into ONE union. Oh wait, it's not reported on the media. They don't want this news broadcasted, but do your own research and find out.

Now the other side of the story makes MUCH MORE SENSE. If it doesn't make sense to you right now, it will if you keep it in the back of your mind and more senseless, irrational behavior goes on being reported through the media.

It's time we all wake up and start questioning all these THEORIES (Note: not explanations) that the media spits out at us.

[dr_white]

Awesome!!! I was waiting for someone to start a conspiracy thread!  Just to add gasoline to the fire, take on the Bilderbergs for the next 2 1/2 hours!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261&ei=qz_iSOPRL6eKqQOtpc37CQ&q=alex+jones+bilderberg&hl=en

[71tr]

Don't waste your time buying into all the myth talk about the Federal Reserve controlling the world.  Most of the nonsense is based upon unsupported claims or tortured logic.  Here is a simple rebuttal to many of the myths.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3616/FedReserveFacts.html

[fdjake]

Believe me I listen.....I'm open to your ideas....I just don't know how to make money with that information. 

OK...so it's a big giant co-ordinated effort....I got it!!!  BUT................unless your sitting at the table while these diabolical ideas are drawn up.....Show me how you make money from it???
What's their next move????  My point is it's useless....GO WITH THE OBVIOUS...Believe it or not, the obvious IS NOT obvious to most people.

Let's run with your theory and I'll take a few liberties with it....

Here's a topic close to my heart....FORD MOTOR COMPANY.   OLD OLD MONEY right??  Let's get crazy and talk about how Henry secretly supported Hitler prior to WWII.  So we now have a $25 BILLION loan package to bail out Ford and GM....This is old money, people who are CONNECTED.  Cripes One of Fords previous Presidents was BOB MacNamara.  He started Viet Nam!!!!  So here we are.....the guy's from the "goverment" are here to help you!!!  They loan Ford BILLIONS to bail out an old money family who has connections that go right to the WHITE HOUSE!!  They've developed a plan to screw the tax payers and save the Ford families fortune.

Here's my question??????????????

WHY AREN'T YOU BUYING FORD STOCK BY THE BOAT LOAD????  IT'S OBVIOUS RIGHT??  Plain as day, right??

COME TO THE DARK SIDE LUKE!!

Now I hope EVERYONE reading this last paragraph knows this is all BS.  But this is EXACTLY how conspiracy theories go.  Ford's getting a loan package because if they DON'T.......5,000,000 PEOPLE LOSE THEIR JOBS!!!
THAT is not BS.  Ford and it's parts suppliers, dealers, workers, advertizing companies, ect touch 5,000,000 REAL PEOPLE.  Those people have HOMES, they buy CARS, they LIVE.  And.....on top of all of it, and more likely the REAL REASON.......Decide which party wants to be known for FOREVER as the guy's who watched the Big 3 go BYE BYE!!!  I told you guy's this a YEAR ago.....IT'S OBVIOUS.....Ford IS NOT going away.  Now THAT is something you can make MONEY on.  The rest is BULLSH*T.

That "EXPERIENCE" you mention that I have, which keeps me from seeing other points of view.  Has made me a LOT of money over a long period of time.  THAT'S REAL, not a thought, not an idea.  I've said this before.....YOU PLAY THE HAND YOUR DEALT.   Right now it doesn't make a bit of difference to me who, what, or how this was caused....I saw it coming, made my moves, and I have made money from those moves!!! (anyone else buy those USO oil puts this spring???)  I guess I could sit back and decide what group of "bad guys" set up this fake oil shortage we had.....OR....I could make a 6 figure return on it!!!

I guess my point to you is.........I DON'T CARE....who, what, or why....all I need to know is.......WHEN.   If you know the WHEN it is very difficult to LOSE money on an investment.   Case in point....Remember last spring WHEN the "experts" were telling us we WOULDN'T have a recession???  While that BS arguement was raging I was buying put options in the USO (west texas intermediate oil index) LOT'S OF THEM.
I told ROOKIENYC about this trade and the reasons behind it.  I didn't know WHO caused the run up in prices,  I didn't know WHAT caused the run up,  and I didn't know WHY prices had DOUBLED in less than a year.....What I DID KNOW was the "WHEN"......I knew that "WHEN" the economy REALLY began to slow in THIS country, CHINA was gonna get HAMMERED.......  WHY????  Because EVERY SINGLE thing I pick up has MADE IN CHINA on it.  If the "idea" was CHINA is using all this oil, MY THEORY was..... What happens to those facotries when AMERICANS are on their @SSES and can't buy their junk????

What EXPERIENCE told me was we WERE in a recession, it was going to be BAD, and OIL PRICES were going to get CUT IN HALF (we'll get there)  Knowing the WHEN turned a $25,000 investment into a $200,000 return.  So...PLEASE...don't talk to me about OPENING MY MIND to "new THOUGHTS and IDEAS."  I called this mess over 2 years ago and fought tooth and nail to get OTHER PEOPLE to open THEIR MINDS.  I'm all set in the "open mind" areana...Thanks.

Second.......Want to know what I did when all the conspirators were dropping interest rates like rocks?????

I refi'd my properties down to 4.99% interest rates!!!!  Man.... if that was a conspiracy.......WERE DO I SIGN FOR THE NEXT ONE???????

You can do SMART things, or you can do STUPID things.  A HUGE NUMBER of people in this country did a LOT of stupid things.  Some people did intelligent things.  The intelligent people DIDN'T run up their credit cards, they didn't pull EVERY LAST PENNY of equity out of their homes, they didn't buy cars they couldn't afford.  While times were good THEY actually SAVED MONEY.....All the conspiracy theories get flushed down the sh*tter when you look at how THESE people are doing.  They have NO MORTGAGES, because during the 8 year BOOM the refi'd those mortgages down to dirt interest rates and then paid EXTRA on them!!!! And now, 8 years later???? THEY OWE NOTHING!!!!  (Guess how I know this?)

Sorry...I do respect you opinion, and I promise I will keep my mind open, but there are just too many people who will actually make money during this to accept the cloak and dagger ideas.

Sure, I'd like to see something done to prevent a global collapse.
Propertymanager thinks a collapse is just what we need.  I have to admit...he's probably right!!!!  I just don't want to LIVE through it. (and I'm sure he doesn't either)

[propertymanager]

NJBird_dog,

You are absolutely right about the conspiracy.  I would recommend reading "The Creature from Jekyll Island".  It is an exhaustive, factual book about the our central bank, the Federal Reserve.  It contains a lot of historic information about how a few extremely powerful families control much of the world's money.  That is a fact - not an opinion, and it is very well documented.  Does anyone really think that Paulson is Treasury Secretary by accident?  These guys are all connected - the investment banks, the Fed, the Treasury Secretary.  If this occurred in a normal business, it would be called a conflict of interest (at the least) and a felony at the worst.  When the regulator, the banker, and the central bank are all intertwined - it stinks to high heaven.

Just think of what is currently happening.  There is a tightening of credit which is being orchestrated by the big banks.  They have manufactured a crisis (although the DOW was up 500 points today).  Because of that crisis, these big banks want the middle class to transfer $700 BILLION to them without asking too many questions.  It's a huge transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper class.  They don't have to sell anything.  They don't have to manufacture anything.  They don't have to even provide a service.  All they have to do is cry wolf and $700,000,000,000 gets transferred from you and me to the ultra rich!  Not bad work if you can get it.  In addition to the money, they are consolidating power with each move.

Think about what will happen next.  We send them the $700 BILLION and then they'll claim that didn't work.  What's next.  Trillions more sent to them, wrapped in a gift box?  And what happens to the smaller banks?  When this bailout doesn't work and they squeeze the smaller banks, they'll get to take them over at firesale prices and consolidate their hold on our banking system. 

Mike

[fdjake]

This is like 2 years ago......trying to explain step by step, why we were headed into a biggest finacial disaster of our lifetimes.......

...and people just laughed!!!!! 

Here it is......

The BANKING SYSTEM is LOCKED UP...

Mike.....believe it or not, the MAJORITY of U.S. businesses not only use credit to meet their weekly payrolls....THEY CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT IT!!!
Your running a one man rental property business.  Let me stop right here...That is in NO WAY a slap at you. But it is a fact.
Try running a car dealership like you run your rental business and you'd be GONE is about 3 months.  Those businesses NEED employees.  Those employees MUST get paid.  A car dealer (and many other businesses) use short term lending for those variable weekly expenses.  This isn't a sign that they don't know how to run a business. 
One of THE BIGGEST GM dealers in this country just closed his doors last week.......Why is that noteworthy????

HE OWNED 16 STORES!!!!!  He went under because he couldn't get CREDIT.   These guy's aren't dummies Mike.....that guy is a MILLIONAIRE....His money is IN THE BANK.  When it got to the point where he was looking at pulling HIS OWN money out to pay his expenses...HE BAILED.  THAT is called a BUSINESS DECISION.  He saw the writing on the wall.  NO CREDIT = NO BUSINESS.   The reality was if he started pulling his own money out the only thing that would have done was destroy HIS wealth.  This guy didn't leave his banks on the hook.....THEY LEFT HIM!!  He closed his doors and almost a THOUSAND people lost THEIR JOBS.....THIS is what BUFFET, Bernanke, and Paulson are worried about.  THE CONTAGIAN EFFECT.....We're ALL gonna see it first hand REAL SOON, bail out or NO bail out.

There's a reason you advise people in your book not to even acknowledge that you own your rentals.  You don't want your tenants to think your the RICH GUY. (and I agree with that 100% and think it's brilliant)  This GM dealer is no different.  He protected himself and his family.  He still owns the Real Estate (which is paid for) now he'll just wait it out.  But he DID preserve his wealth.

This is just getting started......The ripples through out our economy will be MIND BLOWING.....Just wait.

[propertymanager]

Mike.....believe it or not, the MAJORITY of U.S. businesses not only use credit to meet their weekly payrolls....THEY CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT IT!!!

I find that impossible to believe.  I have not always been a one-man show.  Before selling it years ago, I owned a business that employed 50 people.  I started that business from scratch and not once in the 6 years that I owned it did we ever borrow money for payroll.  Even if your business is seasonal (like retailing), I find it incomprehensible that payroll is not made from income.  After all, payroll is simply an operating expense and just like the rental business (or any other business), if you can't pay your operating expenses out of income, you're in the hole.  Maybe that is exactly why these businesses are in so much trouble - they've forgotten the basics of running a business!!!

Mike

[$Cash$]

Looks to me like he couldn't sell cars...

http://tinyurl.com/53hry4

John $Cash$ Locke

PS:

The company began in 1919 as a single dealership in Columbus, Ga. It grew and Heard adopted the slogan "Mr. Big Volume," focusing on big stores, high-volume sales and deals that included loans for people with shaky credit histories.

The business model fell apart as gas prices soared and demand waned for big vehicles like Chevy pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles. At the same time, credit dried up for many customers as finance companies tightened their lending rules.

The company posted revenue of about $2.5 billion a year at its peak, but it said it began to lose money starting in mid-2007.

[propertymanager]

Who's going to buy a car in a DEPRESSION?  Not me - unless it's a Prius!

Mike

[fdjake]

These "loans" that businesses use to finance their payrolls are basically LINES OF CREDIT.  These people aren't running down to their local bank every Thursday to apply for a loan to meet Fridays payroll.
At certain times of the year or after large capital expeditures MILLIONS of businesses count on these lines in order to operate.  This credit is the LIFE BLOOD of American business and HAS STOPPED WORKING.

If you didn't realize how many businesses depend on credit for  payrolls, there's a whole lot more your missing here too.

It's a FACT.....

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/24/smallbusiness/small_biz_credit_freeze.smb/index.htm

[propertymanager]

Few entrepreneurs say they're looking for financing and loans to fund ordinary operations; business owners know that debt is expensive. What drives businesses to banks are growth plans or unexpected shocks.

This is a quote from the article in the link you posted.  Again, I say that any business that has to make payroll from bank loans is going out of business.  This article talks about people who had failed expansions; who had suffered hardship due to a hurricane, etc.  It didn't talk about people using bank loans to make payroll.  I understand that lines of credit and credit cards can be used to smooth out cash flow, but over time if a business can't cover normal operating expenses with income - they are screwing up!!!  Maybe this is why so many businesses are in trouble!

Mike

[Liquidity]

Jake

is 100% on the point of this bailout. I was sooo sick of hearing people call it a wall Street bailout, or a bankers bailout. this is to keep us citizens having jobs.

the countries ability to get loans is FROZEN people.