Obama = Now What?

[wallacehobbs]

Ok, since Obama is going to be our next President
what do you predict is going to happen to our
economy over the next 4 years?

What about the United States in General?

What do you expect will happen?

Discuss   

[propertymanager]

I expect the United States as we know it to be destroyed.  President Bush has gone a long way to doing that with his reckless spending and the socialist bailout programs he has implemented.  Obama intends to take the socialization MUCH farther, as is discussed on his website  www.change.gov    Talk about some scary reading - that should have been released on Halloween!

I'm hoping that after the collapse, the United States will come to its senses and start over as a capitalist country.  We'll see, but we'll be very lucky if we don't end up with a dictatorship.

Mike

[motivatedceo]

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists."

[propertymanager]

MotivatedCEO,

I'm with you.  In the new socialist state, the successful will be the party officials.  Where do I sign up for one of those politburo jobs?

Mike

[fdjake]

Now here's were it flips.....

I've been VERY NEGATYIVE about the economy for a long time, still am for the next 4 years or so.....

BUT.............things NEVER go the way people THINK THEY WILL.

You guy's are beating the crap out of THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

Here's what ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE....

This country will still be a land of LAWS.   Why does that matter??
Because in Venezuela...you can build a big, profitable business, and watch HECTOR swoop in and TAKE IT FROM YOU!!!!!  WOOO HOOO, where do I sign up for THAT!!!

Let's not forget CHINA.......That country is a MESS....WHAT???  A mess???

YES, a full blown screwed up MESS.  Their stock market last year was at almost 8000.......care to guess were it is now????

How's 1700 sound????  Still think WE'RE in bad shape??

What does CHINA do with 1.3 BILLION people who left their farming way of life to work in FACTORIES that were BUILT right OVER that farm land????  They WATCH as those factories CLOSE because the AMERICAN consumer is catching their breath.  Yea that's right...the MAJORITY of people in OUR COUNTRY DO NOT owe more on their homes than they're worth.  The MAJORITY of AMERICANS don;t have SUB-PRIME Mortgages.  But.........the CHINESE have to FEED 1.3 billion people who are watching FACTORY after FACTORY close because the PLANET is in RECESSION.

America ain;t dead yet boys......NEVER, EVER, EVER, count this country out.  Throughout HISTORY powerful nations have done just that....only to get their @sses handed to them by AMERICANS.....

Americans, who....by the way.....are NEVER BETTER than when someone think we're FINISHED!!

It ain't even CLOSE to over here........WHY?????

Because of the Mike Rossi's,  RookieNYC's, FDJAKE's,  MotivatedCEO's, ALLAGASHES, and ON and ON....I sure as HELL ain't about to fold my tent and leave....and neither will the majority of AMERICAN BUSINESS PEOPLE.

It's gonna get real sh*tty here real soon, but it is NOT over...not by a long shot!!!

[propertymanager]

Because in Venezuela...you can build a big, profitable business, and watch HECTOR swoop in and TAKE IT FROM YOU!!!!!  WOOO HOOO, where do I sign up for THAT!!!

I'm not so sure.  I was talking to my banker (a vice president) a few days ago while signing the papers to renew my line of credit (yes, they're still renewing lines of credit).  I was talking to him about the banking business and asked him if the bank took any of that bailout money.  He said that the government came to the bank and offered them some of the money.  They said that the bank was in an excellent position and didn't need or want any of the money.  He said that they came back to the bank and said "you don't understand, you WILL take the money we're offering or you will be bought out by another bank".  Of course, the government took an equity position in the bank when they "loaned" them the money that they didn't want.

So, I guess HECTOR did take over their business, or at least part of it to start with!!!

I think that is OUT OF CONTROL and I want the government to stay the heck out of private business!!!

Mike

[motivatedceo]

That definitely sounds illegal. Or I guess if it's made legal by the government, it's no longer illegal. So nevermind.

Because in Venezuela...you can build a big, profitable business, and watch HECTOR swoop in and TAKE IT FROM YOU!!!!!  WOOO HOOO, where do I sign up for THAT!!!

I'm not so sure.  I was talking to my banker (a vice president) a few days ago while signing the papers to renew my line of credit (yes, their still renewing lines of credit).  I was talking to him about the banking business and asked him if the bank took any of that bailout money.  He said that the government came to the bank and offered them some of the money.  They said that the bank was in an excellent position and didn't need or want any of the money.  He said that they came back to the bank and said "you don't understand, you WILL take the money we're offering or you will be bought out by another bank".  Of course, the government took an equity position in the bank when they "loaned" them the money that they didn't want.

So, I guess HECTOR did take over their business, or at least part of it to start with!!!

I think that is OUT OF CONTROL and I want the government to stay the heck out of private business!!!

Mike

[propertymanager]

I forgot to mention that the banker told me that they have to pay dividends on the equity position (stock, I suppose) that the government took.  So, in effect, they're paying interest on the money that they borrowed and didn't even need.  He said that they are effectively forcing the banks to make risky loans that they don't want to make, in order to put that money to use.

Is this a great country, or what?  I thought that reckless lending was a big part of the problem!

Comrade Mike

[motivatedceo]

Well, actually, what I meant by the learner/learned statement is that thanks to a brief education from some tax lawyer friends I am not worried about him being president.

At first when I heard he was going to propose raising the top tax rates to around 39-41%, and add a 4% social security tax on top of that via my local evening news, I couldn’t believe it. OF COURSE THAT WILL AFFECT MY FAMILY!!!! LOL.

But as I already knew about, and was informed more about --- there are so many LEGAL loopholes and different forms of income taxed at different rates, everything Obama proposes will only minimally affect the educated investor. Even he has claimed he will close certain corporate loopholes, but they are irrelevant to me and anyone else who doesn't have a $100mm+ corporation. Whom he --- errr they, the Democrats --- will primarily hurt will be the high income earning employees (and a few business owners too unfortunately) who are not schooled in the world of taxes and finances OR that cannot afford good advice.

It's too bad McCain didn't win. I will always be a Republican. But oh well, life goes on. I'm not worried about it. I'm making too much money to worry.
 

MotivatedCEO,

I'm with you.  In the new socialist state, the successful will be the party officials.  Where do I sign up for one of those politburo jobs?

Mike

[wallacehobbs]

I expect the United States as we know it to be destroyed. Mike

Mike I sure hope its not destroyed, but I must say your comments
all have some scary but valid points.

Somebody tell me some good new please   

[propertymanager]

The good news is that we can start over after the collapse and maybe get rid of all these entitlements!

Comrade Mike

[fdjake]

Hey Mike.....

Do you know how to tell if a BANKER is LYING to you???

Watch his LIPS....if their MOVING, he's lying!!

You got told a STORY Mike....I deal with 5 different Local banks....NOT ONE...let me repeat this...NOT ONE...has taken a RED CENT of that Federal money.  They haven't been asked to, nor WILL they be asked...they are SOLVENT PRIVATE Institutions that NEVER got involved in the BS that all the GENIUSES dove into.  NONE of them are telling me STORIES like the one you got!!!  That's a BEAUTY.....That guy should be writing fiction!!!

There's a WHOLE LOT more to your bankers story that your NOT getting. 

Remember.....there's a LOT of people that AREN'T BEING TOLD about THEIR BANKS POSITIONS and HOLDINGS in this mess.  If the average American knew the full extent of this....the MAJORITY of MAJOR American banks would fail. 

This guy BS'ed you because if he DIDN'T, you would have put 2 and 2 together as soon as you heard about them taking that money.  Think about it.......If he can make it seem like his bank is OK but the Goverment is FORCING him into taking money he doesn't need .....You walk out the door and tell people your bank is FINE!!!!   Hey....IT WORKED!!!

NEVER, EVER, believe a banker when they TELL YOU they're OK.  It's like a pilot coming on the PA during a flight and telling you the plane ISN'T crashing. 

We had a COMPLETE FAILURE of the Credit Union system in RI in 1991.  They literally LOCKED the doors and ALL deposits on January 2nd.   Law suit after law suit was filed in the following years because BUSINESS after BUSINESS was ASSURED..... IN WRITING.... that THEIR bank was SOLVENT....

THEY WEREN'T......

There was a now CLASSIC experiment conducted in the 1960's at a Prestigous Medical school.  The premise was this.......

People were told that the "experiment" was to see it different levels of electrical shocks could help people LEARN.  The subjects were actually the people pushing the SHOCK buttons NOT the people GETTING the shocks.
The idea was to see if a person that looked like a DOCTOR (white lab coat and name tag with DR Smith on it) would be enough to convince people to give a stranger a potentially dangerous shock.....

Like your banker......the people ACCEPTED what they were told by the "DOCTOR" becuase he was an AUTHORITY FIGURE.  85% percent went as far as to administer a potential LETHAL shock level.   No one was actually getting shocked. They used actors who screamed when a buzzer when off.  It didn't slow the majority down....they kept giving higher and higher levels of shocks.   Most DID start to ASK QUESTIONS (like you did) but they were simply told that.... The "DOCTOR" had OK'd the next shock, please give it....AND THEY DID!!!!!

THINK PEOPLE.....THINK......If your bank is TAKING BAIL OUT MONEY.....

IT'S GETTING BAILED OUT!!!!!!!

I don't give a sh*t how nice the guy's suit is that's telling me it isn't a bailout.......IT'S A BAILOUT........That THAT to the bank!!!!!!

[propertymanager]

FDJake,

I have known this guy for a long time and I don't believe that he would lie to me.  I understand your point, but I also remember when those initial big 9 banks were brought in by the government and some of them didn't want to take the money.  The treasury secretary told them that no-one was leaving the room until everyone had signed - because it was for the good of the country.

In addition, I don't believe that many of these smaller banks need money to lend because almost no-one is borrowing.  I asked this banker if he had been lending money and he said that it had been absolutely dead.  He said that they have money to lend, but the people who apply aren't qualified and people that are qualified are not borrowing money.  He said that he spends a lot of the day just doing paperwork.  I also know a loan officer (who is paid primarily through commission) and she said that she had maxed out her credit cards trying to stay afloat.

On a personal level, I have received numerous PHONE CALLS from one National Bank wanting to lend me money.  That has NEVER happened to me in the past - that banks were CALLING me trying to get me to take a loan.  BTW, I asked them if they were crazy  -  who's borrowing money during a depression?  The only way that I'm borrowing any money is if I find a GREAT deal on a rental that I just can't pass up.

Mike

[fdjake]

Yea Bankers don't lie.........................


Ken Lewis CEO Bear Stearns (Spring 2008)...

"Bear Stearns is in great finacial shape, we have PLENTY of liquidity and a strong balance sheet."

3 days later Bear Stearns was GONE!!!!!!!


Dick Fuld CEO Lehman Bros.  (Summer 2008)

"Lehman has a solid foundation built on various asset classes and a strong balance sheet."

1 Week later Lehman was bankrupt.


Like I said........If a banker is telling you that they took BAILOUT MONEY, and you believe him when he tells you the bank "didn't need it."  I just got a call on a beatiful lot....all ledge... What isn't granite, is covered with barrels that have skulls and crossbones on them.....The owner told me it's not anything toxic, the GOVERNMENT made the guy take the barrels and store them there.
The owner told me that the land is in GREAT SHAPE, and after I remove the 5000 leaking barrels and blast the granite out, I should have a buildable lot.

If you were told THAT story.......would you believe it???

All those LEAKING BARRELS are what's on the BOOKS at HUNDREDS of banks around the WORLD.  Sounds to me like YOUR BANKER was doing a little SELLING the other day..

I'm not trying to bust your chops Mike.....I dealt with a similar situation here in the early 90's and if I had listened to what was REALLY being said I would have saved myself a lot of agrrevation.  I just wanted to put that bug in your ear to get you thinking.  If I had a pile of money in that bank I would be looking at MOVING it, or at least a portion of it to a credit union.  Credit unions are probably THE STRONGEST banks in the country right now.  They make relatively small loans to members.  Credit Unions never got into sub-prime or Alt A loans.   In addition, a majority of those members have the payments taken right out of their pay checks as a payroll deduction.

Just a thought..

[Liquidity]

Mike

 I think your banker seen or read about that meaning with the big boys and paulson. I just dont believe his story either. which bank was it ?? NCC ??