Bailout lies

[Funder]

Who is the best selling car maker in Russia?  Chevrolet.  By a margin of 14.6% against the second best seller.  Buick is the fourth best selling car in China, selling 66% of the number of units sold by the #1 car seller in China.
Ford’s profits in Asia, the Pacific Rim and Europe more than account for it’s losses in the United States.  Ford’s Fiesta ECOnetic model gets 65 miles per gallon.  It cannot be sold in the United States because it is a diesel vehicle and our government would lose smog certificate revenue.  Ford’s F-Series has been America's best-selling truck line for 31 years.
But we need to bail these companies out.
WHY?
Because if they went into bankruptcy, the automobile manufactures could rid themselves of the labor unions. 
Simply follow the money trail.  Ask yourself why Nancy Pelosi would concern herself with Business interests.  She could give a bald-faced rip whether American businesses fly or fail.  She wants to make sure that the United Auto Worker’s Union continues to pipe money into Democratic campaign interests.
This government has proven itself to have absolute power and authority.  In 1989, a proposition went to California voters.  The proposition asked simply whether the sales tax should be increased from 6% to 7.5%.  The California voters voted “no” overwhelmingly.  The government immediately raised the sales tax in spite of what the voters wanted.
When Arnold Schwarzenegger rose to the seat of Governor in the state of California, he put a proposition on the ballot to force labor unions to get the permission of union employees before committing their union dues to political campaigns.  The advertising campaign that followed was so filled with lies it looked like a George Orwell fairy tale.  Governor Schwarzenegger had apparently decided that our state no longer needed firefighters, teachers, police, or nurses.  The lies that ensued were so wholesale that even the most open minded intelligent person that evaluated the motive of this campaign could only conclude that these people were obsessed with making false statements with the intent to deceive the voters so that the proposition would not pass.
This is simply a rant, but I really feel compelled to question the apparently unequivocal motives of this bailout.  It is a play for power and money.  The big 3 do not need our money.  They are run by gravel-gut businesspeople who know how to make money.  The real threat is to labor unions and the grip that labor unions have provided for democrats in our country.  Read between the lies.

[rookieNYC]

Because if they went into bankruptcy, the automobile manufactures could rid themselves of the labor unions. 
Simply follow the money trail.  Ask yourself why Nancy Pelosi would concern herself with Business interests.  She could give a bald-faced rip whether American businesses fly or fail.  She wants to make sure that the United Auto Worker’s Union continues to pipe money into Democratic campaign interests.


I agree %100...Take a look at this article..The Big 3 are paying an average of $73 per hour to their workers while the world languishes in dire unemployment..Pelosi's motives are as transparent as ever...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/105061-should-we-really-bail-out-the-big-three-automakers-with-73-20-per-hour-labor?source=article_sb_popular

[fdjake]

You guys crack me up......

YEA....it's ALL because of the EVIL UNIONS

It couldn't be the FACT that Ford, GM & Chrysler all built PICKUPS and SUV's by the BOATLOAD while Toyopta and Honda were spending money on a NEW VEHICLE Segment called the CUV (Crossover Utility Vehicle)

The MORON executives at the big 3 LAUGHED at these new CUV's they said they weren't TOUGH emough!  (How many SOCCER MOM's do you see driving Honda Pilots up MOUNTAIN SIDES or over Rivers?)
But the Japanese Automakers had the last laugh....
Current American TRUCKS have the EXACT same FOUNDATIONS as 1960's MUSCLE CARS.  BODY ON FRAME construction with a BIG V-8 enigines stuffed in between the fenders.  The Big 3 spent NOTHING on developement, while the Japanese spent BILLIONS.

The end result????

The Japanese automakers DEFINED a new segment in THE HOTTEST selling class of new vehicles  CROSSOVERS!!!
The advantage in a crossover for a BUILDER is they use PLATFORMS that already EXSIST.  The Toyota Highlander and the Lexus RX 330 are BOTH built on the CAMRY platform.  The Honda Ridgeline and Pilot are built on the ACCORD platform.  These vehicles also use their automobile COUSINS DRIVE TRAINS (that means Engines and Transmissions are the SAME!!!!)  Just IMAGINE the COST savings that NOT having to develope ENTIRE new frame systems and completely different
power train systems saves Honda and Toyota.

Before you run your mouth GET THE FACTS.

Toyota makes 4 different ENGINES...................FOUR.

Honda makes 4 different ENGINES....................FOUR.

Ford makes 14..................................................FOURTEEN!!! (Mullaly is dropping that to 6)

I guess the UAW is to blame for piss poor PRODUCT DEVELOPEMENT of the last 20 YEARS too!!

Forget how far behind the Big 3 are in engine technology.  Honda and Toyota have had VARIABLE VALVE TIMING for 10 years, the Big 3 JUST GOT IT    The Japanese are now working on ELECTRONIC VALVE TRAINS!!!!  They use computers to open and closs the intake and exhaust valves, this will increase fuel economy BIG TIME.  It also allows valves to be controlled by the cars COMPUTER which will increase performance.
8 speed transmissions are already in the Lexus lineup.  They create BIG jumps in fuel savings across the power range.

Saying that the Big 3 are at a DISADVANTAGE because of UNIONS is like saving that Wall Street is at a disadvantge because so many people make high 6 figure incomes.

As far as all your DREAMS of a Big 3 Bankruptcy, FORGET IT BOYS.  There is absolutely NO WAY ON EARTH anyone is going to let GM or Ford file bankruptcy with unemployment quickly approaching 8%.

Ford is the DEAL OF THE CENTURY.  Your buying a BACKSTOPPED COMPANY that has THE BEST product pipeline IN THE WORLD.   It's on sale RIGHT NOW in Europe and GAINING MARKET SHARE!!!

The UNIONS are here to STAY.........They were there in 1996 when Ford made a PROFIT of $2 Billion PER QUARTER!!!!!!!!!

[rookieNYC]

What you guy's DON'T know about the car business could fill the grand canyon.


Being that you disrespected me with that comment ,testing my intelligence.. Should I call you out on the that massive Ford stock position that is stuffing your ball$ straight down your throat?..

When you talk to me tone it down fdjake...I made an opinion and didn't disrespect you in the process..

[fdjake]

The only thing getting stuffed here seem to be YOUR yearly profits ....ROOKIE.  I believe you stated you were down 3 % this year. 

I own STILL own those Ford 2010 $7.50 calls.  I haven't lost a PENNY because I haven't SOLD ANY of them.  As I said when I entered the position.  "I'm not buying this company for TODAY, I'm buying it for 4 - 5 years out."  I purchased those calls for between .80 and 1.00...I sleep like a BABY at night knowing we have OBAMA coming into office and at that EXACT time....I'll still have an entire YEAR left on those options!!!  Can you say BAILOUT?????  What do you think will happen when the debate shifts from IF they get bailed out, to WHO is in better shape once the economy turns???  FORD wins that one EASY...

By the way.....MY personal account is UP almost 300% this year. 
From what I've read from you lately, your more wrong than right these days.  That 300% came DIRECTLY from NOT FOLLOWING your advice on OIL.  I guess I should thank you for being wrong.

My opinion is correct.....you DON'T understand the car business.  It's not a slam, it's just obvious.  IT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH RESPECT.

I look at our occasional debates as a couple of brothers arguing.  I don't take it personal.  You shouldn't either.  I KNOW the car business, I LIVED IT for 15 YEARS!!!  THAT IS A FACT.  This investment in Ford is a DIAMOND...if you can't see it, that's fine....but mark my words.....I'll win this in the long run.

[rookieNYC]

fdjake...
yes I respect your opinion...but I fail to believe past trades...im currently up 11pct on the year and my account is 7 digits..personal account that is.......im doing better than 99pct of all hedge fund managers this year...my 3 funds that I oversee are up on the year....we oversee an insane amount of money...so your claims of 3000pct are laughable at best...i work with the sharpest people in this industry...so I should believe that you outsmarted the best money managers during a time of the worst wealth destruction in modern society since the great depression...come on please stop the bs...i respect you a ton...and I too look at this like a brotherly argument...but to me the car industry is dead money...and kerkorian feels the same....i wish you the best on your endeavors but its puzzling to me why if you are such a mind boggling talented trader why you do real estate or anything else.....im willing to move on and not play baby bs but let's not insult each others intelligence any further....ty..

[fdjake]

I agree..it's not worth arguing about.

My account is NOT 7 figures.  BUT....it is ABSOLUTELY UP 300% and it's a high 6 figure account.  It's not BS.  And outsmarting a market which is down 40% wasn't hard at all.    THINK...........The "smartest guy's on Wall St"  were all arguing over wether we'd even HAVE a recession.  You've known my position on that for over 2 years.  These SMART GUYS also DOVE into a CDO market that is handing THEM their @sses.  So Please.......don't tell me how SMART guys on Wall Street are......especially NOW!!

I don't sit here and MAKE UP STORIES about making money...If I've written it.....I'VE DONE IT!!!!

As far as WHY I still do real estate?????

THAT........that question right there.....tells EVERYTHING.

The ONLY REASON I make money investing in the Market is because...

I DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE IN THE MARKET....

You have the advantage of SPEED....I could never BEAT you into a postion.....YOUR disadvantage is you ALWAYS have to be IN.  You RUN MONEY for other people.....they PAY you to be IN.

I DON'T have to be IN.......I can SIT, WATCH, and WAIT......I play ONLY when the odds FAVOR my postion....

I'll admit this here publically......I COULD NOT do what you do...I have a method that WORKS for me.......it has worked well for 20+years.  I see no reason to experiment with it at this point in my life.  Real Estate investing is like falling off a log for me.....I know the MINUTE I start talking to a Homeowner about a home if it's going to be a deal or a waste of time...My real estate business is on auto pilot....It requires very little time, in return I receive a HUGE pay off.  I WOULD NOT want to be a trader for a living.

I recently read a post of yours written on an extremely bad market day (a piece of it is re-written below).
There was NOTHING in that post that would make me want to add that level of stress to my life.

These are YOUR words, NOT mine.......


"The down side of trading is first and foremost:  LOSING MONEY, LOTS OF MONEY..More than you ever thought you could lose.  Feelings of sheer anxiety, fear, agrravation, stress, and depression."


THAT'S WHY I continue to invest in REAL ESTATE....
I have NEVER had those feelings buying a property.  OBVIOUSLY your HERE, (on a real estate site) so your looking for a day when you can GET OFF the treadmill.....Asking ME why I continue to buy real estate isn't the question.....  The question is..... WHY a guy with "SEVEN FIGURES" in a trading account, and a Lawyer wife who makes a pile of money, puts himself through what you described in the paragraph above?????

I'm NOT knocking you Rookie....I think that paragraph you wrote about trading was an AMAZING look into what a TRADER goes through.  I'm NO  trader.....I play MY GAME because it's the way I learned to play SUCCESSFULLY.  But just because we play a different STYLE,  doesn't mean I can't out play some supposedly "very smart' people.

[Liquidity]

ok fellas your both intelligent people with a different opinion's on the auto industry no biggie.


no need to argue who did what and yada yada ya.

[fdjake]

Hey, 

Liquidity and Rookie NOTH have interesting view points on these topics.

I think a little disagreement is a GOOD THING,  I know EVERYTIME I go toe to toe with Rookie.........I LEARN SOMTHING NEW!!!

I just hope he doesn't figure out how I'm learning his "tricks of the trade."

In all seriousness.....

We're good!!!   I've got a TON of respect for both YOU and Rookie.

[Funder]

There are a couple of points mentioned here about technology.  I believe that the ultimate end to transportation will be hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, and Boone T Pickens’ plan to bridge our dependence on foreign oil with compressed natural gas and liquid natural gas and boost our production of electricity with wind and solar is genius…whether we listen is another story. 
I absolutely agree that the Japanese in particular are way ahead of the rest of the world with regard to design, engineering and electronic control.  I also agree that GM, Ford and Chrysler have been ridiculously mismanaged, and I believe that throwing money at these companies will only make the problem of mismanagement worse.
Poor quality and lagging research would not necessarily be the end of American car companies, and filing for bankruptcy does not automatically mean that these companies go out of business.  They could merge, cut expenses and reorganize.  These companies need to evolve with the changing market.
Toyota operates ten plants in the U.S., and Honda is operating 13 plants in the U.S..  In fact, there are many jobs available in the united states today working for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Hyundai, and these jobs obviously did not exist 25 years ago.   I don’t believe that job losses in the Big 3 would change the overall face of employment opportunities in automobile production in the U.S.  Further, technological advances in robotics are increasing production ratios per worker, so fewer people are needed to directly manufacture motor vehicles.  Maybe American workers need to evolve with the changing market as well.
So, the discussion about automotive manufacturing and sales is interesting, but I ask again:
Why would Nancy Pelosi (or any other Democrat) concern herself with business interests?  I remain convinced that many Democrats have an opportunity to continue making money from the UAW, and they will do anything to keep that money line alive and well.  They have an immense conflict of interest, and this bail out stinks of corruption.