Handgun training for self defense

[Vader]

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS.....

Then FOLLOW them!!!

IF you live in a State that REQUIRES you to register a weapon.  You sure as hell better do it.   If you DON'T ...an you wound an intruder.  You could lose not only your FREEDOM but everything you own.

The military teaches soldiers to field strip their weapons BLIND FOLDED.  There's a very good reason for this......By the time you can field strip an M-16 without looking......You've become INTIMATELY familiar with that weapon.  You can tear it down in your sleep.  That builds very high levels of CONFIDENCE.  A privately owned gun is no different.   The amount of TIME you spend shooting it, and working with it ,
the harded it's going to be for some junkie to get the upper hand on you.

Last piece of advice.......

ALWAYS SHOOT TO KILL. 

Never figured you for a "Shoot to kill" type Pete

[fdjake]

Vader,

Your advice is spot on. 

You NEVER want to shoot anyone unless YOUR life is in imminent danger.  It should be a kill or BE KILLED situation.

I did know a girl in High school who lived in a very upscale neighborhood.  She came home from school one day and went upstairs to her bedroom,she was alone at the time.  She heard what sounded like glass breaking at the back door.  She looked out her window to see a man breaking into her home.   She grabbed he fathers loaded 357, opened the window and fired a shot into the grass about 25 feet from the back door.  The gun she fired was a snub nose 357 revolver.  Anyone who has ever fired this type of gun knows that the short barrel makes it sound like a CANNON.

The would be intruder took off like a shot and probably left 10 years of his life at that door step.  Sometimes just KNOWING that theres someone IN THAT HOUSE SHOOTING at you is enough for most IDIOTS to pick an easier target.

[JakeRodgers]

Interesting thread; did anyone hear whats going on in Wisconsin (my home state)? The state's Attorney General announced this week that legally carrying a gun in plain sight should NOT be considered disordery conduct, in and of itself.

There's been several incidents in Milwaukee recently about people legally having their firearms on their person while working in their yard, and the neighbors calling the cops on them, and they get a citation for disorderly conduct for having the weapon in plain sight.

Today, the chief of police in Milwaukee announced that he has ordered local police to continue to apprehend people with guns in plain sight, and sort out the details later- somewhat contradicting what the Attorney General announced. It's created a lot of local debate regarding firearms in general. granted, theres a lot of politics involved in all these decisions, but very interesting nonetheless...

[propertymanager]

Jake,

That is an issue with concealed carry in the real world.   It is difficult to keep the gun concealed at all times, especially if you're actually working.  I do my best to keep mine concealed, but my shirt or coat often rides up over the top of it when I reach for things or carry large items.  I can't tell you how many times I've discovered it uncovered at Lowes or while working on a rental.  I've even had other shoppers tell me that "your gun is uncovered."  Fortunately, here in Ohio, open carry is legal and the police won't arrest you unless you're acting erratically.  Here in my area, they typically arrest people with guns for "creating a panic", but they usually deserve to be arrested for it.  For example, I was driving in town one day and saw a teenager standing in the middle of the streeting twirling a .45!  Needless to say, I called the police.  Thankfully, he didn't point that gun at me.

It sounds to me like the Milwaukee police chief is an anti-gun IDIOT!  There is certainly NO REASON to arrest someone for having a gun in plain sight and 'sort it out later.'  They could just as easily detain them for a moment and check their background.  In only a minute or two, they could determine who is a criminal and who is a law-abiding citizen!

Mike

Mike

[HoldAndBuy]

I agree, the idea seems to scare someone off, not actually shoot, only as a last resort. I was listening to Neil Boortz's radio show recently. He was at his vacation home and thought there was an intruder hiding in his shower, and almost shot at that "person". As it turns out it was just his wetsuit that he'd hung in there to dry earlier that day & forgotten about. If he had actually fired he said the bullet might have gone through the shower wall into the neighboring condo. Who knows what could have happened.

Vader,

Your advice is spot on. 

You NEVER want to shoot anyone unless YOUR life is in imminent danger.  It should be a kill or BE KILLED situation.

I did know a girl in High school who lived in a very upscale neighborhood.  She came home from school one day and went upstairs to her bedroom,she was alone at the time.  She heard what sounded like glass breaking at the back door.  She looked out her window to see a man breaking into her home.   She grabbed he fathers loaded 357, opened the window and fired a shot into the grass about 25 feet from the back door.  The gun she fired was a snub nose 357 revolver.  Anyone who has ever fired this type of gun knows that the short barrel makes it sound like a CANNON.

The would be intruder took off like a shot and probably left 10 years of his life at that door step.  Sometimes just KNOWING that theres someone IN THAT HOUSE SHOOTING at you is enough for most IDIOTS to pick an easier target.

[fdjake]

My guess is the guy in that example had LITTLE or NO gun training.  The VERY FIRST thing your taught as a KID in a hunter safety coarse is you NEVER shoot at ANYTHING you haven't POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED and.....You're sure there's a SAFE zone BEHIND that shot. 

Hunters are killed every year in this country by MORONS that shoot into moving brush only to find out they just killed their friend or family member.

My personal pick for a self defense handgun???

The Kimber Grand Raptor .45 ACP

http://www.tacticalthreshold.com/images/KimberGrandRaptor.gif

COMPLETELY RELIABLE and that .45ACP round makes a BIG HOLE.

[HoldAndBuy]

I agree. If he thought someone was just hiding in the shower he should have left the apt. and then called the police. I wouldn't have told that story on the radio either--just made him look foolish.

My guess is the guy in that example had LITTLE or NO gun training.  The VERY FIRST thing your taught as a KID in a hunter safety coarse is you NEVER shoot at ANYTHING you haven't POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED and.....You're sure there's a SAFE zone BEHIND that shot. 

Hunters are killed every year in this country by MORONS that shoot into moving brush only to find out they just killed their friend or family member.

My personal pick for a self defense handgun???

The Kimber Grand Raptor .45 ACP

http://www.tacticalthreshold.com/images/KimberGrandRaptor.gif

COMPLETELY RELIABLE and that .45ACP round makes a BIG HOLE.

[Rich_in_CT]

Always shoot to kill.  If you are shooting at someone your life had better be in danger.  Wounding them means they will sue you for everything you have and probably ruin your life, much better off to have them dead that wounded.  Especially since they will heal some day and may come back for revenge.  It is not a good life looking over your shoulder forever.

[christopher w]

I agree with Rich. Back when I was in grade school my father was in a bar having a drink after his shift at Jeep in Ohio where I am from. When he was leaving he got jumped by a couple of bikers, and he ended up getting to his car and defending himself with his .357 magnum. Although he did not kill anyone he wounded one guy and that guy sued him and the bar and won. Even though my Dad produced evidence that the guy was hitting him with a bike chain (his leather jacket had the marks) he still ended up doing 30 days in Mansfield (I am sure Mike knows about Mansfield) and had to pay the guy a large sum of money. Wounding someone just leaves yourself wide open for lawsuits and revenge.

[phlegmaticjay]

There are a number of things one must consider when choosing to carry, concealed or open.  The first and probably most important, is are you truly capable of taking another life.  For most of us that carry, that answer is more than likely yes.  Do we want to--no.  But if the decision comes down to me or the wolf going home that night, well I'll be eating dinner with my family.  If you have doubts - AT ALL, then do NOT carry or even pull a weapon.  Period.  Secondly, carrying is a lifestyle change.  And truth be told, it can be a major pain in the ass at first.  You, ideally, should have a lockbox in your vehicle, to lock it up when you go somewhere that is a criminal's target-rich environment--sorry I mean a gun free zone. (schools, entertainment facilites that hold more than 2500 people, bars(shouldn't be carrying period if your drinking anyway) etc.) 
Thirdly, is if you are going to carry concealed, a wardrobe change may be required.  As a rule the larger a person you are, the easier to conceal, just because larger folks have a tendency to wear baggier clothes.  And then depending on the climate you live in, and this is personal preference, you may want to carry a sub-compact semi-auto during the summer and a revolver during the winter.  A revolver carried in the pocket of a winter coat is almost always at hand and the odds of the hammer getting bound up in the lining of the pocket is highly negligible, as opposed to the slide on a semi.
Then you get into ammo selection.  You do NOT want to carry full metal jacket loads in a defense pistol.  If it is anything larger than a .380/.38 at close range and it is a FMJ round, it is probably going through.  It is going to cause minimal damage to the target and is more likely to hit an innocent or property in the background.  Bad,bad, bad.  FMJ rounds are good for plinking or MAYBE if you are in a job where the badguy is wearing a vest.  Otherwise don't use 'em.
Lastly (then I'll shut up) is home defense weapons.  Rifles may be good if someones out on the back 40 of the property.  ( I use a cheap Hi-Point 9mm carbine rifle for coyotes, coons, possums, skunks, woodchucks.  $190 bucks and 9mm ammo is the cheapest ammo to plink with next to .22 ammo.)  That being said, I can't think of ANY scenario where I would use a rifle, carbine or not, inside a house to deter/kill a badguy.  Again the odds of passthrough are way too high.  It could really ruin your night to kill the badguy with the knife only to find out that the bullet passed through three walls in your house and struck your kid while (s)he was sleeping.  The answer to that--a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun.  The debate is wide open on semi or pump.  Personally, I use a Mossberg 500 Defender pump. 12 ga.  The two most unsettling noises in the world for a badguy in someone's home are 1.) the deep throaty growl of a medium to large dog and 2.) the unmistakable sound of a shell being chambered in a pump-action shotgun. As an aside-crooks are more scared of the dogs than the guns.  Dogs in the dead of the night are unpredictable.  That's why I have 4.

As far as training, it just depends on how far an how good you want to get.  The NRA has and sponsors classes for every competency level.  For carrying and home defense, you will probably want to take any and all tactical classes that are offered, in addition to the obvious safety and familiarization courses.

Stay locked, cocked and ready to rock.

[HoldAndBuy]

thanks Phlem. A lot of different things to think about.