Naitonalized Healthcare...

[phlegmaticjay]

It's criminal for a Health Insurance CEO to be making 125 MILLION dollars a year, as described by FDJake.  And morally bankrupt. NOBODY is worth that much money in a salary. It's not as if that CEO invented anything or is manufacturing anything, or improving humankind in any way.

A few years ago we were in Maine on a family vacation, and took a seacoast ride with a tourist sail boat.  Further down the coast was a palatial ocean-front estate--huge house, gorgeous lawns and trees.  The property seemed to go on forever, easily the most lavish on that tour. "Who owns that?" I asked.

"Why that belongs to the CEO of Citibank Credit Cards," replied the boat skipper.

My credit card bill from them was being sent with such a tight time margin (4 days from my receipt until the payment had to be back in their office) that I had been hit with a couple of late charges, vehemently protested. Now every time I  paid that bill I visualized that sumptous Maine ocean-front estate, and the money seemed to just stick in my throat. That level of wealth was plundered from obscene money-lending profits from millions of working people like me.

Health care should not be tied to those level of profits. If government is not involved, Robber Barons breed and multiply. We have all seen now how well an under-regulated banking and investment industry has policed their own.

Furnishedowner

Again at what point do we draw the line?  Credit cards are NOT a necessity.  If the shareholders of Citibank think their CEO is worth what they pay him, so be it.  Who in the hell are you or me or the guy next door to tell someone what is or isn't appropriate for pay.  Just like any other commodity corporate leadership will be paid what the market will bear.  And that is the way it should be.  If I had a CEO, CFO, COO or anybody else running a company for me and they could get it producing $X billion a year.  Damn straight I am going to pay them obscenely.  With even more obscene bonuses.  BUT, if (s)he loses money consistently, then obviously, BAM, gone.  The trick is to tie their pay and ANY bonuses to performance.

It is a dangerous precedent to start allowing the gov't to dictate what is allowable for a yearly income.  And your comments just feed into that class warfare the dems love so much.

And as far as the banking mess, that happened specifically because gov't WAS involved.  Yet I don't hear you yelling about how much Jim Johnson or Franklin Raines made.

[fdjake]

Funny.....I'm a SHAREHOLDER in a list of different companies.....NO ONE....Let me repeat this.....NO ONE....EVER...Has called me to ask what I thought of a CEO's pay.  That's NOT how it works.

So let me get this straight....

You'd pay these guy's UNLIMITED amounts of money until they LOST money for you???

Well.......There's a LOT of bank CEO's RIGHT NOW on Wall St.  that are running institutions that are not ONLY lossing MILLIONS but they are basically INSOLVENT....

Yet their pay checks keep COMING.

We need to get YOU to Wall St.  ASAP so you can FIRE some folks!!!

 

The "trick" is NOT tieing pay to performance.  That's EXACTLY what created this SH*T STORM we're in right now. 

GREED.............. I think they call that!!!

[phlegmaticjay]

If the money was made consistently, yes I would pay them well.

If the money was lost over the course of more than two quarters, there would have to be a easily definable reason why or yes they would be gone.  As a rule.

[fdjake]

Well which it is???

Pay them WELL...or pay them OBSCENELY.....Because THAT'S what we're talking about here.

30 years ago the average CEO made 40 times what the average worker in his company made.

So let's look at this in todays dollars.....

The average worker at company X makes $40,000/year....The CEO of company X would make $1.6 million per YEAR!!!!  This was the NATIONAL average.  Not a made up number.

That's a pretty decent chunk of change....$30,700 per WEEK to be exact....Hell...I had a pretty good month this March but I sure as hell didn't come ANYWHERE NEAR THAT weekly number!!

Now let's look at United Healths "Dollar BILL" McGuire....Shall we???  By the way....He got that nick name BECAUSE of his pay package.  I DID NOT come up with that.  Google search "Dollar Bill McGuire" and you can read all about it.

What's the average annual salary at United Health???  Oh..let's say $50K,  could be more...doesn't really matter when your talking the kind of numbers Billy Boy was puttin' up.

So using our 40 times multiplier, Dollar Bill McGuir should have made ......

$20,000,000 ....That's $20 MILLION PER year..NOT BAD???

Billy BOY did a LITTLE better than that....He made 250 TIMES what the average worker made in his company.

Billy was making $258,000 PER WEEK!!!!!!! or....$125 MILLION per year!!!!

NOPE....nothing wrong with that.....Except that wasn't GOOD ENOUGH for Dollar BILL McGuire....NOPE.....He got caught BACK DATING OPTIONS the company GAVE HIM...

This is called being a PIG!!!  It's not bad enough that the company is GIVING those options to you.....NO....you have to look at a calender and figure out what the EXACT BOTTOM the stock price reached over the last year and have those options awarded to you THAT DAY even though they weren't given to you on that date!!!!!

Apparently the SEC and Treasury Dept DID think there was something wrong with Billy Boys pay and his little back dating BONUS......He BARELY avoided going to JAIL. 

But he was .............W O R T H   I T !!!!  RIGHT????

You guy's can call THAT whatever you want.

I call it being a GREEDY PIG!!

[brockovich]

FD Jake, based on your arguments it must be time for the governement to step into sports and begin regualting salaries for athletes, right? Is steroid tarnished A-ROD worth 1/4 billion? If people continue to go to the ballparks and some owner is dumb enough to commit to that then who am I too complain?

[fdjake]

The difference is.....

If you miss the payment on your Ball Game tickets your kids still get treated by their DOCTOR.

Miss a payment to Dollar Bill's company and YOU and your KIDS are OUT OF LUCK..

Come on.....are you kidding me.

Still think this guy is worth defending???

You might want to read the SETTLEMENT PAPERS below.

http://www.freerepublic.com//focus/f-news/1936393/posts

If your worried about A-Rod.....just don't watch him...If your worried about your health care....that approach probably won't work.

[brockovich]

I assure you I am not defending this guy. I agree with you the guy is slim. But at the same time where does it stop? It won't. The liberal/progressive way of thinking will continue to push to OVER-regulate and further control salaries in all sectors of business. I am just as irritated at this guy as I am a guy like Barney Frank. How is this guy basically in charge of our banking system when he doesn't have a clue?

[brockovich]

As stated earlier the governement and private sector could fix this together but I have NO confidence that will ever happen. This 125 Million bonus is 1/5200th of what the first step is toward national healthcare with the 650 BILLION the Obama Administration wants for seed money to start. Rev up the printing presses because that seems to be the solution to everything. Throw money at it and it will fix it.

How long has the Drug War and War on Poverty been going on now?

[brockovich]

China is already pulling back on the purchase of our debt. Where is the money going to come from. Tax rate of 98%?

50% don't pay taxes now. People who make more than 110K pay 71%. That is basically my salary at my full time job and I consider myself far from rich at this point although my real estate holdings do number 42 units.

[fdjake]

I agree with you.  I DO NOT think Goverment has all the answers.

I just think this ONE ISSUE....Health Care...goverment could put controls in that would make it harder for scum bags like Bill McGuire to literally STEAL money from citizens,subscribers, and businesses.

How many people who commented on this thread were even AWARE of how far McGuire went to obtain more and more for himself.  And don't think for ONE SECOND he gave that money back because he wanted to...He returned that money because he was looking a SERIOUS, SERIOUS JAIL TIME!!!

I am in no way in favor of Barney Franks policies.  That dope almost single handedly destroyed Freddy and Fannie and went a LONG WAY to creating the sub-prime disaster.

[brockovich]

McGuire is a crook! No doubt about that.

[PositiveOutlook]

FDJake, we don't have to try it to know that it would be a monopoly...  and just like Social Security, etc. it will eventually implode on itself with the tax being raised more and more, and services being cut.

You're right in that we haven't tried the full-blown version here yet, but we already have examples of government run care in Medicaid, Medicare, etc. and the opposite would also be true in that you have no idea of whether it would work or not either.  The difference is, once it is in place, if it is a disaster which all evidence (i.e. - other countries, our own attempts at govt. run healthcare, etc.), there will be no turning back!  Once the government has it claws into it and put it into the tax code, do you honestly think they will EVER remove it, no matter how bad it gets?

As far as CEO pay goes, like I said, EVERY industry has it...  healthcare is not unique.  If, with all your investments, houses, stocks, everything, you make more than $250k/year, there are many people making 1/10th of that who think you are "rich", so it's a matter of scale.  I'm sure the guy making $5 Million a year thinks the CEO making $127Mil year makes too much...  But I guess greed is a factor for everyone... I mean you didn't split the $40K 50/50 with the out of work electrician, because YOU wanted to keep the lions share... some would call that greed... you ALREADY have, he doesn't and you knew it, but you wanted MORE... (BTW, I don't begrudge you one penny)...

With regards to the gent in the unfortunate car accident, if he is in the situation where he cannot pay his medical bills, bankruptcy laws are there for situaitons like that... Two to three years later, he could still buy a house IF he lost the one he has (doubtful in bankruptcy).  Before you say - "It's not his fault", we are in total agreement on that, but to have those bills removed without being responsible for any of it comes with a price...  You'll also note that they treated him even though he didn't have insurance, and even though the evil CEO making lots and lots of money was still paid...  Like I said, I also don't see the benefit of a CEO making that kind of money UNLESS they started the company...

"Funny.....I'm a SHAREHOLDER in a list of different companies.....NO ONE....Let me repeat this.....NO ONE....EVER...Has called me to ask what I thought of a CEO's pay." - yes, but as a shareholder, you have a right to attend the annual meetings and have it brought up.... whether you CHOOSE to do so, is up to you.

"Miss a payment" - I don't know where you live, but I don't know ANY doctor that would cut off treatment for missing a payment...

[PositiveOutlook]

The only way I could see a byrid working would be for the government to collect the money in the form of a payroll tax that is sequestered for that use only, and issue vouchers for people to buy their own insurance.  This would be an opt-in system, so those who do not want to participate, don't have to, but it would get the private sector competing for the money.

But that will never happen as they would never close an avenue of tax off that they could perpetually raise....

[fdjake]

The DOCTORS don't collect HEALTH INSURANCE PAYMENTS!!!

As for the guy hit by the druggie...

Oh well.....That's what bankruptcy laws are for....HOW COMPASSIONATE!!!   BRAVO!!!  Just glaze right over the FACT that this is EXACTLY what's BRINGING nationalized Health Care to this Country.  Scenerios where BANKRUPTCY is the ONLY alternative.

[propertymanager]

OK Guys - I removed all the posts that were nothing but insults.  Let's try to get back to the topic minus the personal insults!  Thanks!