The Biggest Racist in the United States?

[PositiveOutlook]

"There are a lot of people that take up a profession of job to help people.  I do real estate to provide good safe places for people to live in."

Yes, but when you leave for work, your chances are MUCH GREATER of coming home... Your profession has MUCH LESS risk associated with it...  and yet, you STILL expect people to treat you politely...

"To Gates it had no bearing on his ID.  I didn't say Gates was right, I said he was stupid.  I also said the cop was stupid to not just leave."

As has been pointed out many times, Crowley WAS leaving until Gates took it out into public... 

"You have to admit that Gates did end it.  He asked the officer to leave."

No, he did not... please show us where this is the case.... show a published source on this, not a blog...

"The officer had to get the last word (because his feeling were hurt) decided he was going to pull the old officer trick “could you step out here sir” Once Gates is outside he can be arrested for that old “catch-all” disorderly-conduct"

Bluemoon06, nothing said will change your mind on this... the facts just don't seem to matter...  We'll just have to "agree to disagree"...

I was watching an account on TV on Hardball and a black comiserator  said he could NEVER imagine Gates, a distibguished professor, using the term "your mama", and that it lacks all credibility, that is, until a video surfaced of Gates using that exact phrase...  but you keep defending him...



Phlemboy...

"He couldn't see it was me because it was dark. I just laughed and thanked him. I told him to feel free to do it again! "

So would I...  somehow, the inconvenience of showing my ID pales in comparison to my house being robbed....  Interestingly, being that Gates' house was robbed before, I wonder if Gates put himself at more risk...  If you were Gates's neighbor, would you want to report ANYTHING at his address???

I wonder if he plans to move...

[Bluemoon06]

Interestingly, being that Gates' house was robbed before, I wonder if Gates put himself at more risk...  If you were Gates's neighbor, would you want to report ANYTHING at his address???

I wonder if he plans to move...

You also have to look at the fact that Gates is not just a professor but a professor of African American Studies.  I the civil rights era, you have no credibility unless you have been discriminated against.  Discrimination to the point of being arrested is like a zoology professor walking up on Sasquatch.  He can write a book about this and instead of selling 100,000 copies (which you would expect just because of his Harvard position) He will sell over a million. 

Bluemoon06, nothing said will change your mind on this... the facts just don't seem to matter...  We'll just have to "agree to disagree"...

I was watching an account on TV on Hardball and a black comiserator  said he could NEVER imagine Gates, a distibguished professor, using the term "your mama", and that it lacks all credibility, that is, until a video surfaced of Gates using that exact phrase...  but you keep defending him...

I don't defend Gates.  I don't know why you think I am unless you are thinking zero sum.  Either Gates is right or the cop is right.  You can’t see how they could both be right or both wrong.  You can’t see how the cop was wrong.  (I never agree to disagree because I am never wrong so I must show you how I am right).  I say that they are both wrong.  The cop should have made it his business to leave without “winning”.  It was not about winning or losing at that point.  There was no crime so he should have left to go be useful instead of wasting tax payers dollars (his salary) booking this crippled old professor.  The cop should have agreed to disagree.

[PositiveOutlook]

"I the civil rights era, you have no credibility unless you have been discriminated against."

You then have no credibility unless you've been a white police officer, who gave mouth-to-mouth resusitation to a black man, TAUGHT racial profiling classes for 5 years alongside a black man (who gave him the highest accolades) , and were supported 100% by your multi-racial fellow officers WHO WERE THERE on the scene...  Not to mention that NONE of the citizens WHO WERE THEREE have disputed the cops account... and THEN be accused of being a racist...

"Either Gates is right or the cop is right.  You can’t see how they could both be right or both wrong. "

I don't think Crowley is wrong BECAUSE you have yet to cite a source for all your assertions on it....  you assert a point, provide no back-up for it, other than your opinion/assumption...

I don't think Crowley was wrong BECAUSE of the facts of the case... and the fact that Gates was threatening a lawsuit and DEMANDED an apology, both of which went *poof* when the facts and recordings came out...  recordings, which BTW, SUPPORT the police report...

I don't think Crowley was wrong BECAUSE the arrest was supported 100% by the multi-racial officers WHO WERE THERE.

I don't think Crowley was wrong BECAUSE none of the citizens WHO WERE THERE have come forward and disputed the officers account of this...

You have yet to prove your case, from what I've seen, you just want to give Gates a pass on his actions that CAUSED to his arrest...

BECAUSE what he said was BACKED-UP BY OTHERS, I give Crowley, the benefit of the doubt...  Gates gave MULTIPLE reasons to question his account of things, and as we see when he dropped talk of a lawsuit and apology, and was threatened by one from Crowley for defamation, it just gave credibility to Crowley...  if you can't see this... you never will...

Moral of the story.... when asked to give your ID by the investigating officer, WHO HAS TOLD YOU, he is there investigating a robbery report by a neighbor, WHO IS OUTSIDE YOUR HOME, just give the ID, leave your racist comments and profiling of a white police officer (no accountability there, mind you) to yourself, and save EVERYONE time and effort...

[Bluemoon06]

"I the civil rights era, you have no credibility unless you have been discriminated against."

You then have no credibility unless you've been a white police officer, who gave mouth-to-mouth resusitation to a black man, TAUGHT racial profiling classes for 5 years alongside a black man (who gave him the highest accolades) , and were supported 100% by your multi-racial fellow officers WHO WERE THERE on the scene...  Not to mention that NONE of the citizens WHO WERE THEREE have disputed the cops account... and THEN be accused of being a racist...

I am talking about credibility in the African Amercian Studies department

If the cop was not wrong in arresting Gates, the charges would not have been dropped.

[PositiveOutlook]

"I am talking about credibility in the African Amercian Studies department"

I misunderstood... sorry...  uh-oh... two sorries on REICLUB in one day!   

"If the cop was not wrong in arresting Gates, the charges would not have been dropped."

Disorderly Conduct charges usually are...  unless you really messed up...  that said, you don't believe that the politics of race and the President weighing in didn't have alot to do with it?

[Bluemoon06]

What I am saying is that it is not an either or situation.  This is not a zero sum situation where you have to choose that either the cop was wrong or Gates was wrong.  I believe that they were both wrong.  I think we all agree on Gates being stupid.  What I am saying is that when the cop had the chance to go on to the next call (and really help the people of Cambridge) and he chose to arrest a crippled old professor and tie up his time with paperwork etc, he was stupid.  There was enough stupid to go around.

To bring this back to real estate.  Do you think that Gates will move?  If he does will this incident make his house worth more or less?

[PositiveOutlook]

"What I am saying is that it is not an either or situation."

In this case, I disagree...  Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree, as I don't fault the cop in this instance...  There was a small crowd gathering, and it was out in public... walking away while Gates is spouting racial accusations out in public only shows other how to intimidate cops and sets dangerous precedent... If Crowley left after being shouted down by Gates using false racial claims, Gates would have been successful in his intimidation attempts through false accusations of racial profiling... Remember, Gates tried to intimidate through false racial discrimination accusation AND social position...  when the first didn't work, he tried the second, and then went back to the first... Must make REAL victims of racial and social discrimination feel real good...

The "stupid" lies with Gates and Gates alone in this circumstance...

"Do you think that Gates will move?  If he does will this incident make his house worth more or less?"

Not right away...  He's got to make money off the situation first...  But I would be interested to know if a house that was robbed would be in demand...

[Bluemoon06]

"What I am saying is that it is not an either or situation."

There was a small crowd gathering, and it was out in public

The croud was cops.  The cop would lose face in front of his brotheren?!?

He lost face anyway with the case being thrown out.  You see how stupid thatwas?

[PositiveOutlook]

"The croud was cops.  The cop would lose face in front of his brotheren"

Bluemoon06, you are wrong again... read the police report...

The onloookers were the Cambridge AND Harvard Police (who BTW, did NOT dispute the arrest or events), Ms. Whalen (who made the call) and "at least SEVEN unidentified passer-by onlookers"...

So, between the police and the other eight (8) people, you were into DOUBLE-DIGITS...  and NONE of them disputed the account...

"He lost face anyway with the case being thrown out."

No, he showed there are consequences to you ACTIONS, and ENDED the Disorderly Conduct and disturbance ... 

"You see how stupid thatwas?"

Yes, Gates acted completely "stupid"...  here we can agree...  I totally DISagree that Crowley was acting "stupidly"...  Based on the FACTS, that's not going to change, so again, we will have to agree to disagree...

[Bluemoon06]

"The croud was cops.  The cop would lose face in front of his brotheren"

Bluemoon06, you are wrong again... read the police report...

The onloookers were the Cambridge AND Harvard Police (who BTW, did NOT dispute the arrest or events), Ms. Whalen (who made the call) and "at least SEVEN unidentified passer-by onlookers"...

So, between the police and the other eight (8) people, you were into DOUBLE-DIGITS...  and NONE of them disputed the account...

"He lost face anyway with the case being thrown out."

No, he showed there are consequences to you ACTIONS, and ENDED the Disorderly Conduct and disturbance ... 

"You see how stupid thatwas?"

Yes, Gates acted completely "stupid"...  here we can agree...  I totally DISagree that Crowley was acting "stupidly"...  Based on the FACTS, that's not going to change, so again, we will have to agree to disagree...

So what you are saying is that the police saving face in front of a few people is grounds for taking a crippled old professor to jail when there are real threats to life and limb running amok in the town?  And you have to remember where he is.  The people other than cops are university types.  They are not impressed by tough cops.  The cops are impressed by tough cops.  This was for them. 

I say that for every case that an officer gets dismissed he should have to pay a fine of $25.  It is not enough to cause his wife and kids to go hungry but it will make him think twice before he performs a stupid arrest just to save face.  He will have to decide if there is a crime here or does he want to risk $25.

I was on a jury last year.  During jury selection questioning they asked us if we believed the word of a police officer because he was a police officer.  There was this one guy who said that if a police said it was true no matter what it is.  I remember thinking this has got to be the only guy in the world that thinks that way.  But now I guess there are 2.

[phlemboy]

Bluemoon. Just because a case gets thrown out, doesn't mean the person did nothing wrong. It just means the judge is the one who ultimately decides the case. You can't dispute the fact that Gates decided to take the "high road" and want to move on AFTER he learned the incident was on TAPE, Crowley was a respected officer who taught a PROFILING  class, and there were NO witnesses backing him up. All that lawsuit talk just turned into "lets move on".. I would too if I looked like a . Obama showed no better judgment by commenting before knowing the facts. But I guess will make it all better. I don't think every cop is right all the time no matter what. But in THIS case. The cops were right. Gates was wrong. Not wrong enough to warrant having a conviction on his record. But wrong enough to get arrested. More than likely Gates has no prior arrests/convictions. Most judges give a first time offender a free pass. Especially if they've stayed out of trouble their whole life.

[PositiveOutlook]

Bluemoon06,

"So what you are saying is that the police saving face in front of a few people is grounds for taking a crippled old professor to jail when there are real threats to life and limb running amok in the town?"

No... what I am saying is IGNORING the police when they warn you multiple times that you are being disorderly in view of the public, and even upon seeing the cuffs come out, does not even give him pause ARE grounds for this old man, crippled or not, to be taken in for disorderly conduct...  What are you saying, that crippled people should be allowed to be disorderly???

Like I said, if you don't like the law, campaign against it... until then, it is the law and they currently have the right to use it...

"And you have to remember where he is.  The people other than cops are university types.  They are not impressed by tough cops.  The cops are impressed by tough cops.  This was for them."

Yes, remember where he is.... Not only are the Cambridge police but so are the HARVARD campus police, who more likely than not, KNOW Gates, and even THEY did not come forward to say Crowley was wrong...  Never mind the other multi-racial officers from Cambridge or the other eight (8) citizens who had their attention drawn to this public display...

"I say that for every case that an officer gets dismissed he should have to pay a fine of $25.  It is not enough to cause his wife and kids to go hungry but it will make him think twice before he performs a stupid arrest just to save face.  He will have to decide if there is a crime here or does he want to risk $25."

It is not the police's job to be prosecutor, judge or jury... 

"I was on a jury last year.  During jury selection questioning they asked us if we believed the word of a police officer because he was a police officer.  There was this one guy who said that if a police said it was true no matter what it is.  I remember thinking this has got to be the only guy in the world that thinks that way.  But now I guess there are 2."

I never said the police are not wrong...  I said in this case, they were not...  You STILL cannot get past that not only were there (8) citizen witnesses who did not come forward to dispute the police, but that TWO separate police departments were ON THE SCENE, and NONE OF THEM, disputed the arrest...

That combined with the fact that once the recordings were made public, SUPPORTING Crowley's police report, NOT Gates, that Gates dropped his threat of a lawsuit and demand for an apology....

There has been NOTHING provided by you Bluemoon06 that disputes ANY of this...  So while you may accuse me of siding with the police all the time, it is quite obvious that DESPITE THE FACTS, you will just try to find ANY reason to justify Gates, and try to find SOME reason why he shouldn't have been arrested for Disorderly Conduct...  Your argument is with the law itself...  Don't blame the police for using a law that goes back DECADES, and is used all across the country, especially when it was a textbook example if you read the statutes...

Look how many times you have tried to twist the facts of the case to create an alternative impression....  Give it up...  it just shows you either don't KNOW all the facts or you simply just don't care, and will stick with your opinion DESPITE the facts...   

So, because that is the case, like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree...