nit wit........maybe not

[sellnbama]

A spokeman for Joe Wilson posted over $700,000 raised after his "you lie" outburst.I'm not justifying his dumb outburst.But maybe some on this forum were a little gitty to throw (what seems to be how the majority felt about the speech)under the bus a little too soon.Furthermore,the democrats did find a "loophole"(with the repubs help) and took it out of the bill that would've covered Illegals.

Funny how these things kinda take care of themselves is a way.Or perhaps it's THE TRUTH which always prevails.No blamegame,name calling,or other crap; just sit back my friends....greed will kill greed.Simple as I can say it. Common sense and facts win every time.

Have a great weekend yall!

[fdjake]

MAJORITY?????????????

Where......maybe your house???

From everything I've seen INCLUDING what came from REPUBLICANS themselves.....This DOPES own PARTY threw him under the BUS!!

This guy's opponent was hundreds of thousands in debt from his last campaign....Now he's raised (as of yesterday) OVER $500,000 and STILL growing!!!

So.....TOURETTE BOY takes a guy that had NO SHOT against him....and suddenly PUTS him BACK IN THE GAME....with TWO WORDS!!!!

That's the very definition of a NIT WIT in my book.

And from the LOOKS on the faces of Republican leaders after making apology after apology for this dope........Calling this guy a NIT WIT is, I'm sure, far better than what his own party members refer to him as.

Now they have ANOTHER race to fight in Alabama that wasn't even on the radar screen until the other night.

[PositiveOutlook]

From what I've been reading, people are supportive of him, not because of where he did it, but THAT he did it... like I said earlier, it seems it was an emperor has no clothes moment...

What is interesting in this debate is not only that it has forced Democrats to come out strongly and say there is no provision for illegal aliens on national TV, but Conrad and Baucus (Dem's in the Senate Group of 6), came out Friday and said they would put in a citizenship requirement in the Senate bill...

“We really thought we’d resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President’s speech last night we wanted to go back and drill down again,” said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange — a move likely to inflame the left."

I'll bet it will inflame them... considering the Dems voted TWICE along party lines against two Rep ammendments in the House bill 3200, for proof of citizenship requirements to close the loophole... you know, the one that supposedly didn't exist...  In doing this, the Dem's are admitting Wilson was right, which is why he is becoming a cause celeb to the right...


Even Obama's administration came out and "clarified" this on the Friday night policy dump...

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx

Now, let's see if they'll "clarify" the abortion issue as well...

[sellnbama]

FD,

First FACT is this is SOUTH CAROLINA not alabama.Second is the MAJORITY  of americans are STILL  against this healthcare even after "The One" tried another pack of 

Also the conceeded SOB had to make even 9/11 about him by changing the name......why after 8yrs?Makes about as much sense as closing gitmo being his 1st order of business on his 2nd day in office!And how did that help your stocks,or the economy or any damn thing?FD,,,I really respect you and I know you're smart enough to see through this circus show.

Another fact is libs put in contribution links on all their crazyass sites to support wilson's opponent.Wilson,however only had his own site to represent him since repubs had denounced this as they should've.BUt you must admit that's the real "grassroots"@ work as we'll see today in washington.

Stay tuned a real uprising of real people is coming and not a minute too soon.   

[fdjake]

Bama,

I'm not disagreeing with you on a lot of this....

You're a smart person, you can see through the BS and I have to be honest here...

I've never seen anything like what's going on in this country right now...

That uprising you and others here have been warning about...Is about one major event away.

In all honesty.......I can not believe the lunatics in this world haven't taken advantage of this already.

I'm a REALIST.....I look at what I have to work with and structure my investments and plans AROUND the current reality....

Do you want to know what scares me more than Health Care Reform, the Deficit, or anything else right now?????

A MAJOR terrorist attack on this country OR a MAJOR weather event that shuts down a big commerce corridor......

We get that within the next YEAR.....and we can KISS OUR ECONOMY GOOD BYE!!

We are hanging on by a THREAD right now......I see signs of recovery...REAL SIGNS....but they are TREMENDOUSLY WEAK and FRAGILE......ANYTHING.....ANYTHING....unforseen that creates PANIC will CRUSH any recovery we may, or may not, be experiencing....

I give our Goverment credit.....Both BUSH and OBAMA....They DID NOT let it just GO....Like so many said should have happened....That would have literally SHUT DOWN the entire economy....I've read reports from completely unbiased sources that said the Goverment under BUSH and with OBAMA reps present were laying out plans for how long our FOOD SUPPLIES would last if the banking system collapsed....That's how close we were to losing EVERYTHING....They estimated about 3 weeks before FOOD SHORTAGES would start, that would lead to HOARDING then THAT would lead to looting and it would accelerate down from there.....These were not IDIOTS laying out these scenerios.....These were people from major MILLS and food production companies that went to Washington because THEY were concerned about the CREDIT they require to operate these MASSIVE grain mills across the country....We came THAT close to losing it ALL!

To their credit....BOTH SIDES....cut the BS and did what they are currently getting CRUCIFIED for.....They decided an ORDERLY RESTRUCTURING was better than a complete COLLAPSE....We had the COLLAPSE in the 1930's.....It literally haunted people till their dieing days DECADES later....Remember the day Congress DID NOT vote for the TARP????  Wall STREET COLLAPSED that day....Literally fell through the floor.  PIMCO (the largest bond trading company on earth) recently mentioned that their second in command sent his WIFE out THAT DAY to every ATM machine she could go to and had her withdraw as much CASH as possible.  He literally told her that the banking system was about to completely collapse WITHIN HOURS!!!

This mess may end the same......Maybe they just prolonged the end result....BUT....my son ATE last night...I have ROOF over my head that is competely PAID OFF, Looters have not invaded my neighborhood (although should they decide to...I'll let Mr. Colt, Mr. Smith & Wesson and Mr. Remington do my speaking for me)  I made more money last year than I had the prior year...And our COUNTRY and it's ECONOMY are still ALIVE...

We'll see how things go.....

We are STILL in completely UNCHARTED WATERS.

[sellnbama]

Fd,

I totally 100% agree.I also wanna add to your very true statement about terror attack,the push for racial divide is being done also.They are foaming at the mouth @ MSNBC to tie everything to race,and knowing that nbc/GE is in bed with this administration is scary.This artificial racism is terribly dangerous FD.Trust me I'm in the deepsouth if it was all about race,I definitly would hear it here.Sure there are nutjob racists on both sides,,but to feed on it as nbc is doing is begging for the nutjobs to make a move.

Very trying times we're in,,I hope people will use democracy for their voice,,,and the politicians and media will listen.So far,so good,let's all hope and pray for our country.     

[PositiveOutlook]

Fdjake,

I don't believe they did the right thing...  all they did was set us up for the NEXT big one...  How are you going to be able to argue against the next bailout with the same rationale...  It will be a new twist, a new "unprecedented" bailout...

The more the government is relied upon for bailouts, the MORE bailouts there will be...  NOT less...

[fdjake]

I don't believe you fully understand exactly what would have happened here....

We were looking down the barrel of a COMPLETE BANKING SYSTEM COLLAPSE....

MONEY MARKET accounts were being closed at rates that banks COULD NOT keep up with....They were LITERALLY within HOURS of having to LOCK THE DOORS.  This comes directly from Fed Governors that were being contacted by their regional banking centers.


Banks DO NOT keep money (dollar for dollar) in instruments that can be quickly liquidated.  As more and more people began to panic worrying about ACCESS to their money, these accounts drew down at rates that according to people very close to the situation....Were HOURS away for causing banks to DENY ACCESS...

As soon as that happened  PANIC would have set in and at that point it's GONE....The genie is out of the bottle...

Most people have absolutely NO IDEA how close we came to complete economic shut down....When a complete collapse occurs NOTHING moves in a normal or orginaized fashion.....PANIC RULES....Rumors are the new reality...

Our Goverment is in NO WAY perfect......FAR, FAR from it...But in THAT INSTANT, under those conditons.....They did the right thing....

This is just my opinion on the subject....

I see people everyday that live in, or are directly affected by CHAOS....
It's not something you want to see in your banking system or your financial markets.

It sounds great....."They should have just let the banks fail"  It's sort of like saying we should just NUKE IRAN!!!  Sounds GREAT....Until you start looking at REALITY....In reality that isn't an option.  Just as letting a banking system that took over 200 years to create, CRUMBLE in HOURS...

But honestly......In the end.....We'll never know for sure....This is all opinion.
You could be 100% right....We could have had a complete collapse and everything would have righted itself eventually...One thing is CERTAIN...It would have been absolutely BRUTAL....and MANY, MANY, Americans that never did a thing wrong would have been CRUSHED.  As their grandparents were in the 1930's....Another LOST GENERATION....But maybe we already have that??? 

We'll never know.

[PositiveOutlook]

Fdake,

"We were looking down the barrel of a COMPLETE BANKING SYSTEM COLLAPSE...."

I know that is what we were being told over and over again...  But here is where I disagree...  you have the same people who didn't see it coming, all of a sudden being "right" within 30 days to pass TARP... and the REASON we were given for TARP (i.e. - REMOVING the toxic assets from the system to unfreeze the credit markets) not only did NOT happen, they are STILL there, it was an about face almost immediately AFTER it passed... and the money was also spent on things that had NOTHING TO DO with WHY the program was passed...  so, in the meantime, we BORROWED the money to GIVE to the banks to LOAN US BACK our OWN MONEY...

I don't think you fully understand there's more at play here...  more and more people in the financial community are saying we should have just let these failing businesses go out of business... 

Just like with "stimulus"... 10% of the money has actually made it out there for all these SHOVEL-READY jobs (another BOGUS claim), and you have the VP & President saying it has WORKED...  GREAT!  Then give the OTHER 90% BACK...  last I checked, it was MORE than $2500 for every man, woman and child in this country...

I doubt we will agree on this, but the White Houses OWN PEOPLE are saying that unemployment will remain HIGH FOR YEARS TO COME...  I hope they are wrong on that too...

[fdjake]

You are right....100%

BUT......what the TARP plan DID do was this....

It put a FLOOR IN......It put in a safety net that everyone KNEW existed.
As soon as that NET was in place people and institutions KNEW if they HAD to jump they wouldn't DIE.

Knowing that literally STOPPED the panic...That's a FACT....Once TARP was passed we moved THROUGH a certain point of no return....The markets recognized this IMMEDIATELY.  That tells you something right there.

In my mind THAT is what TARP was all REALLY about....They couldn't come out and TELL US that....It would have been admitting there WAS panic.  TARP was created to STOP a run on our financial institutions....It was SOLD to us, and it HAD to be SOLD.....They had to LABEL it with something simple like TOXIC ASSET.....NO ONE knows where these things are....even TODAY....But it STOPPED A STAMPEDE....

THAT's were they got it RIGHT.....And to be honest.....We can thank BUSH for that....This went agianst everything this guy stood for but he recognized (to his credit) that this was a panic situation and PANIC and BANKING aren't two words that belong together.

But the end result is.....You are I are both STILL making a living....and our kids are eating...

[PositiveOutlook]

If I recall correctly, the FDIC raised the limit to $250K per account (2 1/2 times the previous limit) temporarily, which allayed more fears than TARP...  TARP made people all the more nervous, and with good reason...

That, on top of all the spending that's occurred and the power grabs with it, have made people extremely mad, and IMHO, is the reason for all the uprising... 

[fdjake]

Then explain to me WHY Wall Street literally COLLAPSED the SECOND that first TARP vote failed on the floor???

I WATCHED IT as it happened...We walked right up to the abyss...

THAT collapse was a CLEAR SIGNAL by the MARKETS that this was NOT OVER...not even close.....That increase to $250,000 is MEANINGLESS if your bank has LOCKED it's doors and you have no banking system left.  And THAT is EXACTLY what TARP averted.....If the WALL ST. BANKING SYSTEM had been allowed to CRASH people would have hit banks in DROVES the next day.....It would have created complete panic when it became apparent that banks don't keep enough CASH on hand for every deposit.  Then the REAL stampede would have started.

The proof is in the TARP VOTE itself.......It failed intially....Wall ST collapsed IMMEDIATELY.
Then the PHONE CALLS got made.....Phone calls WARNING Congress what the next day on Wall St was going to look like should this measure NOT pass....These Congressmen are a JOKE.....I laughed my @ss off at what was going on.....They put on a CIRCUS for us....All of a sudden the same guys who voted to build a $200 million moving sidewalk in my state and COUNTLESS other BILLIONS in WASTE were then CONCERNED about MONEY being used to save an entire economy???

It was complete BS.....What SNAPPED them out of it was the PICTURE that was painted for them by PAULSON and OTHERS.....They laid out EXACTLY what would happen on Wall St if this failed....They showed them the ALREADY STAGGERING OUT FLOWS of money from our banking system as smart people pulled their $$$$ and planned for a collapse...Paulson showed them what THEIR FUTURES would hold if THEY let it all go on THEIR watch.

Self preservation won out....And the SAFETY NET got placed under Wall St...and you and I STILL have a functioning banking system.

As I said......Our Goverment is not perfect.....But on this one......They got it right.  the real problem was created by REPUBLICANS who left WALL ST. with virtually NO REGULATION for 8 LONG years.  In addition...we had another idiot REPUBLICAN for a Federal Reserve Chairman..."Many Americans may benefit form new MORTGAGE PRODUCTS coming to market."    I doubt he was talking about guys like ME in that speech....I HAVE benefitted from the housing collapse but that probably WASN'T the BENEFIT he was referring to.

It ALWAYS ENDS THE SAME WAY......Some people SEE the BUBBLE INFLATING and get away from it.......OTHERS run TO it and then COMPLAIN when the explosion hurts them....

The people who didn't go near BUBBLE are left to BUY from the people who got HURT.....

SOME of the people that got hurt LEARN from their PAIN....Others NEVER learn.

And the cycle REPEATS......OVER and OVER and OVER....Has for THOUSANDS of years....WILL for thousands more.

Going against the CROWD has made me more money than anything I have ever done....REMEMBER THAT!!!

[PositiveOutlook]

Fdajke,

I was going to respond to your point about "how do I know I'm right, because the MAJORITY thinks, I do the opposite..." schitck, but I guess after you thought about it, you realized that the MAJORITY were pushing for TARP...  so you can't have it both ways...  which is why I suspect you deleted it... 

As far as the market goes, it dropped 7% when the first vote failed, but the NEXT DAY, before there was any vote, it GREW 5%...  AFTER TARP was passed, look at the charts it started dropping like a rock.. it was down 13% a week AFTER TARP was passed...  it went down to $6547 on March 10, 2009... 

I don't buy that TARP was the savior you think it was BECAUSE they POUNDED that we had to remove the toxic assets from the market to get credit rolling again...  Then almost IMMEDIATELY after it was passed, they CHANGED THEIR MIND...  toxic assets remain, credit markets are still frozen for the most part... job NOT accomplished...

[fdjake]

Credit markets are NOT frozen....

You have no idea how bad this was.....We were at a point were LIBOR was at never before seen levels....and BANKS would NOT lend OVERNIGHT to other BANKS...THAT is a frozen credit market....We just had HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people buy new cars with cash for clunkers...Where did these people get the FINANCING to buy these cars if credit markets are STILL frozen????  They were buying $25,000 cars and getting at most $4500 for their clunkers....The CREDIT MARKETS provided those loans...UNFROZEN CREDIT MARKETS!!!!

You've forgotten how bad this was......THRIVING BUSINESSES could NOT get simple PAYROLL loans.....Loans and credit lines they had for DECADES were pulled in as banks LOCKED UP over liquidity levels.

LIBOR is the overnight lending rate banks charge each other for short term loans......BEFORE TARP that rate was at HISTORIC NEVER BEFORE SEEN LEVELS ....LIBOR is now down to just over 1%....For ONE REASON and ONE REASON only.......TARP...

Those banks wouldn't lend to each other because NO ONE knew who had which toxic assets....FEAR RULED THE BANKING WORLD.  Once that NET was put in place it didn't matter if you were loaning to a bank with those assets...TARP would make the LENDING bank whole again if the bank TAKING the loan failed due to toxic asset problems....THAT and ONLY that....Got CREDIT MARKETS operating again.

As far as my comment goes that you quoted.....I stand by it COMPLETELY and actually ended the post with a different wording...

I go against the crowd in almost every investment I make.....When I see the MAJORITY believing one thing AS YOU POINT OUT and agree with in so many of your posts.....I KNOW that in almost every case, THAT OPINION will be proven WRONG...

Look at the track record....

When did the majority of Amercians buy their homes in the last 10 years 1999-2009......they purchased in the biggest numbers in 2005-2006  the EXACT PEAK of the biggest housing bubble this country has ever seen..THE MAJORITY WAS WRONG

What happened to the MASSES that literally CAMPED OUT along with THOUSANDS of others at sales offices in Florida to buy PRE-CONSTRUCTION CONDOS!!!  THE MAJORITY WAS WRONG..

What happened to the MIILIONS that thougth they could make $$$$$ trading TECH COMPANY STOCKS in the late 90's...THE NAJORITY WAS WRONG.

Now the MAJORITY (according to YOU) feel as though we should have let a cascading banking collapse occur at whatever speed the market would unwind at....and this would have been BETTER than what we have now....A FUNCTIONING ECONOMY....

I stand by every word I wrote.....THEY got this one right...As far as what the MAJORITY THINKS????  The majority of Americans don't understand how their own MORTGAGES are structured....I don't expect them to understand that our BANKING SYSTEM works through a series of interlocked institutions that ALL sink or swim based on CONFIDENCE in that system.

TARP......whether you like it or not......Was the LAST rung on that confidence ladder....

Monday morning quarterbacks are about as valuable as yesterdays LOSING lottery ticket. 

I;m NOT calling you a monday morning quarter back.....But I AM calling the so called finacial EXPERTS that got HAMMERED during this mess LOSING LOTTERY TICKET HOLDERS....Their opinions are of equal value.

[PositiveOutlook]

"TARP......whether you like it or not......Was the LAST rung on that confidence ladder..."

Well, that last rung snapped, because we went from 10,800 down to 6547 AFTER TARP was passed...  oodles and oodles of confidence there... 

"A FUNCTIONING ECONOMY...."

The economy was functioning during ALL of this... There was still 90%+ employment and because of cost-cutting and inventory reduction efforts, and lay-offs, you had companies reporting profits...

"As far as my comment goes that you quoted.....I stand by it COMPLETELY and actually ended the post with a different wording..."

Then we agree, TARP was the wrong thing to do...

"Where did these people get the FINANCING to buy these cars if credit markets are STILL frozen????  They were buying $25,000 cars and getting at most $4500 for their clunkers....The CREDIT MARKETS provided those loans...UNFROZEN CREDIT MARKETS!!!!"

The credit markets are thawing, but they are still very tight... but they have not reversed course and RE-established people's lines who had them cut or closed, and unless you have 720+ credit scores, you will be paying MORE any loan you can actually get...  So we GAVE them our BORROWED money, only to have them make it HARDER for us to get... and this does not include all the fees they've added...


The name said it all - Troubles Asset Relief Program - TARP - it was a bait and switch and BILLIONS went to foreign governments... all the "troubled assets" are still there along with the NEW record batch last month...

It's like I said, we are probably not going to agree on this...  I hope that things get better, but time will tell...