So when will the stock market plummet back to 7000 level?

[furnishedowner]

hoosier,

I am very much the capitalist.  I started a business from scratch 6 years ago.  A socialist would have just sat around waiting for a government hand-out, right?  Instead of putting in those 60+hour weeks.

The reality is that under socialism there is a lot of governmental control and unnecessary restrictions.  If you are in a socialist country it is hard to hang out a sign, "Babysitting", "Lawnmowers Fixed", "Homemade Enchiladas".  They would just shut you down.

Here we do have the freedom to do all kinds of work and benefit from it.  One of my workers is moonlighting right now by grilling corn on a street corner and selling it.  Small start up cost, and some good profits @ $4.00/ear.  The stuff tastes and smells great, too.  Under Socialism you would need all kinds of permits, inspections, etc.

I barked back at you because I got tired of being called names by you because we disagree politically.  One of the things I enjoy when I watch congressional debates is the civility__"I disagree entirely but I yield to the gentleman from ...".

Now I do disagree almost entirely with several of you on this site.  But wanting universal health care does not make me a socialist.  I'm just a little more scared than the rest of you about having under-treated people living here.  I want universal health coverage so that I won't catch your AIDS, TB, flu, or the next scourge.

Now I yield to the gentleman from Ohio.

Furnishedowner

[Hoosier4life2005]

hoosier,

I am very much the capitalist.  I started a business from scratch 6 years ago.  A socialist would have just sat around waiting for a government hand-out, right?  Instead of putting in those 60+hour weeks.

The reality is that under socialism there is a lot of governmental control and unnecessary restrictions.  If you are in a socialist country it is hard to hang out a sign, "Babysitting", "Lawnmowers Fixed", "Homemade Enchiladas".  They would just shut you down.

Here we do have the freedom to do all kinds of work and benefit from it.  One of my workers is moonlighting right now by grilling corn on a street corner and selling it.  Small start up cost, and some good profits @ $4.00/ear.  The stuff tastes and smells great, too.  Under Socialism you would need all kinds of permits, inspections, etc.

I barked back at you because I got tired of being called names by you because we disagree politically.  One of the things I enjoy when I watch congressional debates is the civility__"I disagree entirely but I yield to the gentleman from ...".

Now I do disagree almost entirely with several of you on this site.  But wanting universal health care does not make me a socialist.  I'm just a little more scared than the rest of you about having under-treated people living here.  I want universal health coverage so that I won't catch your AIDS, TB, flu, or the next scourge.

Now I yield to the gentleman from Ohio.

Furnishedowner

Sorry, just because you enjoy the benefits of Capitalism doesnt make you a Capitalist.  That would mean Obamas a Capitalist because he went to college instead of doing nothing?

Im going to be like Chris and "call a spade a spade"....


Socialism...
noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole

You want to take my ownership (my money), and give it to the government so they can control the production and distribution of a commodity (health care).  You can keep telling yourself your not a Socialist Furnished, but you are. Just because you dont like the word due to its negetivity, doesnt mean you can just ignore it.

I must say, even though I dont agree with some (Chris) on this board, atleast he isnt on his hands and knees wanting more from Obama like you are...


Im going to sound a little like Glenn Beck now, but SOMEBODY tell me how I am WRONG in my assessment of Furnished?!?!  ANYBODY

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

" I want universal health coverage so that I won't catch your AIDS, TB, flu, or the next scourge."

THAT'S the reason you want universal healthcare???  Well, how did you not get those deseases up to now?  My guess is your are in your mid-to late 50's... how did you survive it up to now? 

"Here we do have the freedom to do all kinds of work and benefit from it.  One of my workers is moonlighting right now by grilling corn on a street corner and selling it.  Small start up cost, and some good profits @ $4.00/ear.  The stuff tastes and smells great, too.  Under Socialism you would need all kinds of permits, inspections, etc."

If you lived near alot of cities, you are required to have permits, health inspection posted, etc...  I don't live near a city, and a town (next one over) wants a PERMIT for kids to set-up a lemonade stand...  at a cost of $25!...  So government again KILLING initiative...

Now the federal government is now also REQUIRING people who have garage sales, to not only get permitted for a fee, but to go through every item they are selling and compare it to a list they provide...  if you are caught... If I remember, the first offense is a $1000 fine...  the saving grace on this, is I can't see how they will actually police this... but the fact that they are doing this, should just give everyone pause as to what's happening around them...  You are the lobster in the slowly simmering pot, who is getting ready to be cooked...

From what you post Furnishedowner, you want capitalism for YOU, but for everyone else, you are content to let them live under socialist programs, ALL of which overall give the LEAST and create a lesser life...  I just don't understand that thinking....  why is it good for you, but not them???

[Bluemoon06]

go through every item they are selling and compare it to a list they provide

What kind of things are on that list?

[PositiveOutlook]

Bluemoon06,

Here are some articles...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/homegarden/2009286944_zhom01toysafety.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,552021,00.html


Here is the list...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/thrift/thrguid.pdf


As an example of waste... instead of replacing a hinge on toy chest... they tell you to DESTROY IT...

From the above article(s) - ""Ignorance of the law is not an excuse," warns a 27-page Consumer Product Safety Commission resellers' handbook, released this month. "But more importantly ... you do not want to sell products that have the potential to harm anyone, especially a child."

[furnishedowner]

I won't catch your AIDs, TB, etc. because YOU will also be receiving health care. Including preventative health care.

What I meant was that it is unsafe (not to mention inhumane) for only the rich, or well-insured, like probably most of us on these boards, to receive health care.

Lots of diseases are communicable!  And new diseases can evolve for which EVERYONE needs to be treated, innoculated, isolated, whatever.  In my lifetime I remember polio plagues where NO CHILD went swimming for fear of catching it, the AIDS epidemic when no one knew what caused the body's immune system to shut down, the flu of 1957 where people were really, really sick, and now H1N1.  Two healthy  teenage high school girls, one 15, one 17, have died in the last two weeks from H1N1 in our little town.  People here are pretty freaked out about this worsening flu.

So I am a capitalist because I believe in and work like a capitalist.  I am a selfish capitalist because I am looking out for number one--me!  I want universal, government-option health coverage for EVERYONE because we can't have people running around untreated for their diseases.  I could die!  You could die!  The time of the plagues is not over.  It will never be over. Germs mutate.  I am a realist on this.

Furnishedowner

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

Your reasoning is little out of left field...  these deseases don't discriminate based on race, sexual orientation or insurance cards...  having insurance does not negate these things... If you have it, you ALREADY HAVE IT... for flu's, you are communicable whether you have insurance or not...  and just because you have insurance doesn't mean you are getting the H1N1 shot...

To make the point...  If that is how you feel, you are aware the Obama's did not vaccinate their kids against H1N1, right?

So if the President of the United States doesn't feel the need to innoculate his kids, why do you???  He certainly has access to much more information on it...



With regards to you being a capitalist... you are for yourself, but want socialized programs for others...  Just doesn't make sense...  You should be pressing for capitalism so that others may JOIN you in being able to provide their own level of living... instead, you advocate things that will diminish people's capacity to be the best they can be...  you need to look no further than inner cities...  Why would you want to promote polices that lead to such a lessened and degraded existence???  I just don't get it...

[Hoosier4life2005]

I won't catch your AIDs, TB, etc. because YOU will also be receiving health care. Including preventative health care.

What I meant was that it is unsafe (not to mention inhumane) for only the rich, or well-insured, like probably most of us on these boards, to receive health care.

Lots of diseases are communicable!  And new diseases can evolve for which EVERYONE needs to be treated, innoculated, isolated, whatever.  In my lifetime I remember polio plagues where NO CHILD went swimming for fear of catching it, the AIDS epidemic when no one knew what caused the body's immune system to shut down, the flu of 1957 where people were really, really sick, and now H1N1.  Two healthy  teenage high school girls, one 15, one 17, have died in the last two weeks from H1N1 in our little town.  People here are pretty freaked out about this worsening flu.

So I am a capitalist because I believe in and work like a capitalist.  I am a selfish capitalist because I am looking out for number one--me!  I want universal, government-option health coverage for EVERYONE because we can't have people running around untreated for their diseases.  I could die!  You could die!  The time of the plagues is not over.  It will never be over. Germs mutate.  I am a realist on this.

Furnishedowner

You honestly, HONESTLY think, with universal health care.... there would be no deaths to H1N1?  Come on..   People die, it sucks, but thats life.  With universal Health Care, all your going to be doing is letting the government dictate who gets to see the doctor and who doesnt (doctors are not infinite, theres only a certain amount of people they can see, so who gets to see the doctor over you or me?  Lets let the Government decide)

Our Health Care system has way to much Government in it right now.  Lets get the gov outta it, instead of more goverment.


And the money.. oh the money.  You honestly think Goverment can keep the bill at what they say they think its going to be?  WE CANT AFFORD IT RIGHT NOW!!! Have you seen our debt?  Every 1 dollar the government says there going to spend, they end up spending atleast 10 dollars.

[Bluemoon06]

You honestly, HONESTLY think, with universal health care.... there would be no deaths to H1N1?  

This is why I hate this healthcare stuff.  Nobody knows what it is.  It has no definition.  But with better access to healthcare you can afford to get vaccinated I guess.  I have no idea if “heathcare” has anything at all to do with vaccinations.

[fdjake]

Furnished.....

YOU are a CAPITALIST......In EVERY SENSE of that word....You make your OWN income.....YOU CREATE WEALTH!!!  You RISK your capital inorder to BUILD SOMETHING!!!

"Just because you enjoy the benefits of capitalism doesn't make you a capitalist".....

No.....buying property, rehabbing it, renting it, improving it, risking capital, and doing it ALL SUCCESSFULLY makes you a CAPITALIST!!! 

Hoosier knows as much about CREATING WEALTH as he does about running a real estate business........N O T H I N G!!!

HOOSIER hasn't made a DIME on his own.   But that doesn't stop him from LECTURING a VETERAN real estate investor on the subject of CAPITALISM!!!
He constantly WORRIES about SOCIALISM, the CONSTITUTION, and BIG GOVERMENT!!!!  All while he attends a COLLEGE with GOVERMENT BACKED STUDENT LOANS!!!!!!!!!

We got us a SOCIALIST here all right.......It's the guy calling the REAL CAPITALISTS........SOCIALISTS!!!!

Ain't that ALWAYS the way!!!

[furnishedowner]

The point I was trying to make is that with 100% of a population able to access health care, we will have a healthier population.  Hopefully you won't have people with active TB bacillus coughing on you in line at Wal-Mart.  Like they do now.

They will be able to get treated and have less chance of spreading disease.  This is so common-sense that I can't understand why you don't get it.

Of course people will still die and get sick. From lots of stuff besides H1N1.  It's stupid to think they won't.  PosOutlook, you write such utter nonsense that I can't even respond to your tangential  thinking.  Maybe a logic class would help you?  Hoosier is young, that at least is his excuse.

These posts are just wearying, but it was interesting to learn about the garage sale used stuff new rules. Thanks for sharing that.  That's exactly the kind of poorly-thought out law that needs to be rescinded.  It doesn't make sense.  Those kind of stupid laws have always been espoused, then protested and changed.  Let's change that one.  And it's not an example of the end of the world government control; it's just a dumb law.

Furnishedowner

[furnishedowner]

fdjake,

You always cut right through the BS and lay it bare!  I probably wouldn't even bother any more with this site if you and a couple of others weren't on it.

I always enjoy your posts.

Furnishedowner

[Hoosier4life2005]

Furnished.....

YOU are a CAPITALIST......In EVERY SENSE of that word....You make your OWN income.....YOU CREATE WEALTH!!!  You RISK your capital inorder to BUILD SOMETHING!!!

"Just because you enjoy the benefits of capitalism doesn't make you a capitalist".....

No.....buying property, rehabbing it, renting it, improving it, risking capital, and doing it ALL SUCCESSFULLY makes you a CAPITALIST!!! 

Hoosier knows as much about CREATING WEALTH as he does about running a real estate business........N O T H I N G!!!

HOOSIER hasn't made a DIME on his own.   But that doesn't stop him from LECTURING a VETERAN real estate investor on the subject of CAPITALISM!!!
He constantly WORRIES about SOCIALISM, the CONSTITUTION, and BIG GOVERMENT!!!!  All while he attends a COLLEGE with GOVERMENT BACKED STUDENT LOANS!!!!!!!!!

We got us a SOCIALIST here all right.......It's the guy calling the REAL CAPITALISTS........SOCIALISTS!!!!

Ain't that ALWAYS the way!!!

#1, No I dont have Government backed student loans.  My parents started a college fund when I was little.  Thank you very much.  Not sure where you got your information. I dont need government.  I would gladly get a job at Mcdonalds and pay for college over getting a government loan then having this BS we have today.

#2.  Furnished IS a Socialist.  Just because Furnished enjoys the market of Capitalism, that doesnt dimiss her/his (whatever Furnished is) views.  Furnished wants Welfare/Public Services/National Health Care.  THAT by DEFFINITION is SOCIALISM.  I have alot of respect for you jake, because you usually know what your talking about. Surely your smart enough to understand simple deffinitions.  Furnished wants our Government to be Socialist, pure and simple (by deffinition atleast).  You can bring your arguement with dictionary.com if you want...


Calling Furnished a Capitalist is like calling Obama a capitalist because he BOUGHT a DOG WITHOUT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION!!! Hes such a hard working Capitalist isnt he?!? YES!!!

[Hoosier4life2005]

Was watching Beck today..

Furnished, how would you feel about this.  This is Glenn Becks Health Care plan..


Take 2 states, lets pick Massachusetts (Liberal, already have a Government plan) and Texas (Conservative, likes Free Market)




Let Massachusetts have Obamas Health Care plan (since they are already SCREWED by their current Government plan).

Let Texas have their own way, no Government intervention.


See which one works better....

The advantages?
If Obamas Health Care is a disaster, it would only ruin one state.  We can then copy Texas's system, with no government intervention.

IF IT WORKS, we save a State that is horribly in trouble (from a Government program) already.  We can then spread it to the othe states.

How would you feel about this Furnished?

[fdjake]

Hoosier,

You haven't made a DIME IN YOUR LIFE with YOUR OWN MONEY.....Yet you constantly YAP about CAPITALISM and SOCIALISM...  CRIPES...Have you ever even PAID TAXES?????...You just graduated from HIGH SCHOOL, a GOVERMENT FUNDED PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM!!!!  That's SOCIALISM at it's highest level.....As is your local STATE COLLEGE or UNIVERSITY (which you now attend).   Your PARENTS are apparently SOCIALISTS because they are PROVIDING FUNDING for YOU (a person that no longer WORKS) inorder for you to attend COLLEGE.....SOCIALISM is WRONG?????   For WHO????   Everyone..... BUT YOU????

Get some time in the REAL WORLD then talk to me about CAPITALISM!!!! 

GOD ALMIGHTY......Get a freakin' JOB THEN talk to me about your TAXES.

I don't need a DICTIONARY to tell me what CAPITALISM IS.....I LIVE IT...AS does FURNISHED......We earn what we earn because we're willing to RISK what we have inorder to CREATE MORE......

But you wouldn't understand this.......READING DEFINITIONS and  DOING IT with REAL MONEY are completely different.  But don't let that little detail keep YOU from telling REAL INVESTORS how it is out there....

KID........Lecture someone else.......You are CLUELESS on this subject.

Looking up the word INVESTOR in a dictionary.............

DOESN'T MAKE YOU ONE!!!!