More Gun Insanity

[jfpen]

FurnishedOwner doesn't understand history, nor care about the government starving; hanging; working; or hacking MILLIONS of people to death.  She doesn't care that this has occurred over and over in RECENT history in almost every one of the socialist countries that she loves so much!!!   She certainly doesn't believe that it could happen here.  I'm sure that none of the people believed that it could happen where they lived (until it did).  Her only focus is on those evil inanimate objects (guns). 

FurnishedOwner is NOT serious about stopping gun violence, she is interested in the socialist agenda and giving the government TOTAL CONTROL of our lives.  She's a good little comrade!

Propertymanager,
                              I think that Furnished is like many in this country. They have good intentions but haven't learned the history behind some of the debated issues.  And, more importantly how that history fits into the "big picture". I put the majority of the blame on our educational system.
                             Our system is based on the Prussian model of education. It is designed to educate people just enough to be productive and contribute to the economy but still be passive and easily controlled. One of the widely unrecognized but otherwise intended consequences is that good intentions and consensus is used as replacement for history and scientific fact. But hey, If I say a stop sign is red and the other 9 in the room say it's green, They must be right!

JP

[propertymanager]

JP,

I agree, however, the highway to hell is paved with good intentions.  Good intentions based on complete ignorance led to the rise of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and most of the world's other dictators (who murdered hundreds of millions of people in the VERY RECENT PAST). 

The socialists know that the ONLY way to solve gun violence is to PUNISH CRIMINALS, and yet they coddle criminals and promote punishing law abiding citizens.  The socialists should know that gun registration and gun bans are the first step to the MASS murder or millions of people by tyrannical governments, but they must have been in a group hug instead of paying attention during history class (or they're complicit in wanting to destroy the country).

I believe that civil war is rapidly approaching, thanks to the socialists.  The government is already pushing the edge on first amendment issues, like the gag order by Obama on the two EPA employees who produced a video telling the truth about cap and trade, or the attempt by Obama to ban Fox News from the press pool recently.  This is SERIOUS STUFF, but the socialists simply don't understand the end result.

If I say a stop sign is red and the other 9 in the room say it's green, They must be right!

No, it's still red!!!  Moreover, WE (freedom loving Americans) outnumber the socialists in this country.  It's true, that we have been busy leading quiet, honorable lives and being politically asleep; but we are now waking up and we don't like what we see!  Change is in the air and it's not the change that our socialist president is seeking!!!

[jfpen]

JP,

I agree, however, the highway to hell is paved with good intentions.  Good intentions based on complete ignorance led to the rise of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and most of the world's other dictators (who murdered hundreds of millions of people in the VERY RECENT PAST). 

The socialists know that the ONLY way to solve gun violence is to PUNISH CRIMINALS, and yet they coddle criminals and promote punishing law abiding citizens.  The socialists should know that gun registration and gun bans are the first step to the MASS murder or millions of people by tyrannical governments, but they must have been in a group hug instead of paying attention during history class (or they're complicit in wanting to destroy the country).

I believe that civil war is rapidly approaching, thanks to the socialists.  The government is already pushing the edge on first amendment issues, like the gag order by Obama on the two EPA employees who produced a video telling the truth about cap and trade, or the attempt by Obama to ban Fox News from the press pool recently.  This is SERIOUS STUFF, but the socialists simply don't understand the end result.

If I say a stop sign is red and the other 9 in the room say it's green, They must be right!

No, it's still red!!!  Moreover, WE (freedom loving Americans) outnumber the socialists in this country.  It's true, that we have been busy leading quiet, honorable lives and being politically asleep; but we are now waking up and we don't like what we see!  Change is in the air and it's not the change that our socialist president is seeking!!!

Amen

[allagash]

always refreshing....

Keep it up Mike.

-Mike

[furnishedowner]

What bizarre and illogical nonsense by propertymanager, and seconded by you others!  Hard to believe!

One way to tell when you have won an argument is when the other side starts using deflection...I don't like your facts, so I'm going to change the subject...

I told you that the British experiment now seemed to be working well.  The British had started dealing with an increase in gun crime, fueled by youth gangs, drug dealing, poverty, unassimilated immigrants, and the glorification of gun culture.  So they toughened up the laws, they got guns off the street, they decreased the number of guns.  They got SAFER.

You respond with posts on a fear of genocide!  The Boogie Man is coming!  You say that every socialist country has been bathed in blood from genocide!  That only you armed, vigilant warriors can prevent more genocide! 

You buy right into pro-gun propaganda videos without any critical thinking whatsoever.  You are drinking from a poisoned well. For heaven's sake, take a University level world history class.  They are available by audiotape as well.  Those are interesting and balanced courses.  Not propaganda by the huge gun industry and their lobbyists.

How about some facts:

The only genocide done in this country was WITH firearms, on the native Indian population.  How would arming every Indian have helped that?  How would that armed populace have prevented their own killing?  IT WOULDN'T HAVE.  It was the politics of that day, the "Indian Problem".  It was a political decision to wipe out the Indians.  The Cavalry fought them until resistance stopped.  Had they all been armed to the teeth, the Indian Wars would have lasted longer, and been even more bloody.  But there is no doubt about the outcome.

Genocide takes place when there is overwhelming political and military force on a subject people, without external aid.  The Khmer Rouge killed by millions, by every means. The Armenians (I saw the video, too) had firearms, but didn't use them. So how did that work out for them? Instead they gave them up.  Genocide takes place when there are despots (Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein), when there is a population to blame economic problems on, and when there is overwhelming political and military might to effect the genocide. 

Arming the Jews in Germany would not have helped them!  They were up against the Wehrmacht, the SS and "Gott Mit Uns!" Nazi philosophy.  Their only hope was to get out of the country when they saw the first signs that the rule of law had broken down. 

Property manager is worried sick about those vicious Socialist countries.
The Socialist Scandinavian countries are amongst the safest, most Democratic on earth.  They have been operating peacefully (no internal genocide) for more than a thousand years.  They are model states, with their populations consistently the happiest and safest in the World.

If you want to worry, worry about the new "rabid right".  Worry about the home-grown militias.  Worry about those uninformed, hot-headed so-called "patriots" who don't know what they are supposed to be fighting for.  Worry about the civil rights of whomever those ignorant "patriots" encounter, and view as being on the wrong side of their current belief system.

I am not a Socialist.  I am not a Californian, although I lived there some years ago.  I do not want to put law-abiding citizens in jail for 5 years for having guns!  I WANT TO PUT THE CRIMINALS IN JAIL FOR VIOLATING OUR NEW FEDERAL GUN LAWS.  So we can get those scumbags off the street.

Contrary to what you think, Hoosier, having a gun IS a privilege, not a right.  If you are a felon, no gun.  If you are insane, no gun.  If you are a child, no gun.

We need to decrease gun violence.  We need to decrease the number of guns.  An excessive number of guns, in the wrong hands, means excessive gun violence. This is indisputable.

You are not at risk for genocide!  You are at risk of Mom-Pop shootings, of break-ins to steal your guns, of random gun-shooter violence, of having a firearm in your hand while you are inordinately depressed.

Let's get sane about guns.  Let's start a National dialogue about some laws that make us safer.  Federal laws with teeth.

Insanity is continuing to do what ISN'T working.  Insanity is calling our current gun violence acceptable.

Furnishedowner   

[sellnbama]

Furnished,

I can't stand your rants about how great socialists countries are.WHy don't you pack your crap and get gone to one instead of this horrible one your socialist/communist liberal leaders are trying to "fundamentally transform"??

Just can't understand your blaming everything on our freedom.Gun rights had nothing to do with Ft. hood!!!!Had this been anywhere else in Texas this scumbag would'nt have gotten off two shots because of conceal/carry law.Being politically correct in the military is the blame,simple as that.     

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

Let's get down to the nitty-gritty...

Simple question...  is a gun death any different than a knife death?...

[furnishedowner]

sellnbama,
I didn't go on a rant about Socialists countries. I merely responded to the diatribe of propertymanager.  You don't have to read my replies if you don't want to.  Telling me to "pack up my crap and move" is pretty darn childish. 

I agree with you, in that gun rights had nothing to do with the Ft. Hood shootings.  If a trained, permitted military person goes crazy and wants to shoot people, he or she probably will.  It has happened before, soldiers have even gone crazy, and shot their comrades on the battlefield.  It could have been in the cafeteria, a movie theater, where ever.  Fortunately, it's pretty rare.  I started the post when the next day there was  (probably copycat) another bunch of shootings in an office building, fortunately with a smaller death toll.

PosOutlook,

Yes, a gun death is different from a knife death.  A gun death can take place at a great distance. The perpetrator can kill and maim multiple people in a matter of seconds, and the killer doesn't even have to touch the victim.  Doesn't even have to get blood on his hands!  Can kill without fighting!  Can kill without a risk of being killed himself.  A gun is way more lethal.

I know what you are trying to say:  a death is a death.  That is not logical.  Gun deaths are so excessive because of the ease of the deed.  You know this.  A dead person is a dead person.  But how they got there is another matter, and when you have an excess of thousands of dead people, we need to start dealing with this huge cost to our society.  34,000 Americans in ONE YEAR did not get dead by knives, sticks, stones.  It was guns.

What's interesting is that when our family was in England last year on vacation, there were newspaper headlines like, "Another teenager knifed!"  There was huge concern over street violence in some neighborhoods.  I remember thinking, "Thank God, at least it's knives.  If it were guns, there would be many more killed."

I'm going to ask you all again--how can we lessen gun violence?  What can our society do to effect this?  Now we know that an excess of guns leads to more gun deaths, so how can we do this?  What laws and measures would you like to see tried?

Furnishedowner

[Hoosier4life2005]

I'm going to ask you all again--how can we lessen gun violence?  What can our society do to effect this?  Now we know that an excess of guns leads to more gun deaths, so how can we do this?  What laws and measures would you like to see tried?

Quote from FurnishedOwner.


....

Furnished, this is the main problem.  We've already explains that gun laws are NOT the way to lessen gun violence.  Why do you look for more Government to solve all our problems.

We know excess guns leads to more gun deaths?  Uhm... what?  You got any stats for that or are you just talking out of your ass?  I think Texas would like a word with you.

The way to solve gun violece is with more guns. NO Amercan shoul be denied the right to carry a gun and defend themself.  (Or have a limit on the amount of guns you can have)

We've went through this like a thousand times on this thread... yet your not understanding.  Mike and PositiveOutlook have done a good job replying to this... why do you just.. ask it again and again after getting good answers?

[propertymanager]

I'm going to ask you all again--how can we lessen gun violence?  What can our society do to effect this?  

Funny you should ask, because I have the answer.  If you want to lessen gun violence - SEVERLY PUNISH THE CRIMINALS!  This isn't brain surgery FO, but you can't seem to grasp it....or more likely, you know that is the answer but you socialists always want to coddle the criminals and therefore punishing the criminals simply isn't acceptable to you.

Now we know that an excess of guns leads to more gun deaths, so how can we do this?  What laws and measures would you like to see tried?

That's ridiculous and you just made that up!  Banning guns leads to more violent crime, NOT LESS!  Look at what happened in England.  When they banned guns, gun violence EXPLODED!  I think it's hilarious that you claim that it's now diminished 3% (or whatever number you're claiming).  That's a drop in the ocean compared to the huge increase they've experienced!  When you ban guns, only criminals have guns!

The Khmer Rouge killed by millions, by every means. The Armenians (I saw the video, too) had firearms, but didn't use them. So how did that work out for them? Instead they gave them up.

We're not giving our guns up here in the US and we WILL fight instead of allowing some tyrant to destroy the country and kill millions of people.  Pacifists like you and your socialist buddies will always march peacefully to the gas chamber, but many Americans would rather die fighting (I know I would).  

I am not a Socialist.

That's interesting, because you continually espouse socialist policies and ideals.  You appear to be for government control of everything and you are definitely for government taking away our constitutional rights.  You also constantly defend socialist countries.  If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a DUCK!  Why not at least have the integrity to own up to what you are and proudly state that you're a socialist!

Arming the Jews in Germany would not have helped them!  They were up against the Wehrmacht, the SS and "Gott Mit Uns!" Nazi philosophy.  Their only hope was to get out of the country when they saw the first signs that the rule of law had broken down.

Who says that arming the Jews wouldn't have helped?  If they were armed and were willing to fight, they may very well have changed history!  At least they wouldn't have marched like sheep into the gas chamber.  They would have died with some dignity fighting and made the Nazis pay a huge price.

Property manager is worried sick about those vicious Socialist countries.

Nope, I am worried about you socialists destroying MY COUNTRY!  I agree 100% with sellnbama - if you love the socialist countries so much - PACK YOUR BAGS AND MOVE!  You can NOT have MY COUNTRY!

I do not want to put law-abiding citizens in jail for 5 years for having guns!  I WANT TO PUT THE CRIMINALS IN JAIL FOR VIOLATING OUR NEW FEDERAL GUN LAWS.  So we can get those scumbags off the street.

In other words, you want to create new gun laws that would make law abiding citizens criminals!  Your thinking skills are so lacking that you can't admit to yourself what actually needs to be done.  Since you don't understand, I'll help you - what we need to do is PUNISH THE CRIMINALS using the laws we already have.  YOU SOCIALISTS ARE PREVENTING THAT FROM THAT BEING DONE!  I'll refer back to my personal experience.  I was the only witness to an attempted murder in January.  the perpetrator of that crime is a convicted felon that has been arrested OVER 250 TIMES, BECAUSE YOU SOCIALISTS CODDLE CRIMINALS!  If there was ANY justice in our country, this scumbag would have been sentenced to life (or death) after the first 100 crimes!!!  Instead, he's out on the streets stalking me and at some point he's going to make a mistake and pull a knife, hammer, gun, or some other weapon.  I think we all know what the result will be and IT IS YOUR FAULT FO - yours and all the other socialists in this country.  

The problem has nothing to do with guns - the problem is that we don't punish criminals!

We need to decrease gun violence.

 

I agree and the way to do that is SEVERLY PUNISH CRIMINALS (instead of coddling them).

We need to decrease the number of guns.

Wrong!  When you take guns away from law abiding citizens, gun crime ALWAYS increases.  When law abiding citizens CARRY weapons, violent crime decreases.  Sorry if you don't like the facts, but there they are.

An excessive number of guns, in the wrong hands, means excessive gun violence. This is indisputable.

I agree!  So, the answer is to punish the criminals so that guns won't be in the wrong hands.  Not really that difficult to understand.  Your answer which is to punish law abiding citizens will do NOTHING to lessen gun crime!  Law abiding citizens don't commit crimes.

Why do you look for more Government to solve all our problems.

Unfortunately, we all know the answer to that - BECAUSE SHE'S A SOCIALIST!

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

"Yes, a gun death is different from a knife death.  A gun death can take place at a great distance. The perpetrator can kill and maim multiple people in a matter of seconds, and the killer doesn't even have to touch the victim.  Doesn't even have to get blood on his hands!  Can kill without fighting!  Can kill without a risk of being killed himself.  A gun is way more lethal."

Have you missed the MULTIPLE posting in Japan, England etc. where I showed you MULTIPLE deaths via knives?   The only difference between a gun death and a knife death IS THE MEANS...  the death would still be a death, so what DIFFERENCE does is make if it was a gun, knife, bat or hands?  They are still DEAD...  the majority of gun deaths are by suicide, but you somehow think that putting all the burdens on LAW-ABIDING gun owners will stop them from killing themselves....  I honestly don't get your thinking on this...


"I know what you are trying to say:  a death is a death.  That is not logical.  Gun deaths are so excessive because of the ease of the deed.  You know this.  A dead person is a dead person.  But how they got there is another matter, and when you have an excess of thousands of dead people, we need to start dealing with this huge cost to our society.  34,000 Americans in ONE YEAR did not get dead by knives, sticks, stones.  It was guns."

What is interesting is that you defined "excess deaths" earlier as above 1200 per year...  ALL deaths are tragic and excessive, but some deaths are necessary also... 


It is ALREADY a federal offense for a felon to use a gun.  As has already been noted via the Supreme Court, CRIMINALS cannot be forced to incriminate themselves by registering their firearms, and they CANNOT buy them legally, so they will either buy an ILLEGAL GUN or STEAL a legal one to use ILLEGALLY...  NONE of what you proposed can STOP this so the ONLY ONES who pay ALL THE COSTS are the LAW-ABIDING gun owners...  are you disputing this?

Criminals will CONTINUE to ILLEGALLY use guns for crime BECAUSE they KNOW that they will not get any SERIOUS time...  So by being lenient, coddling them in jail with TV, Internet, weight rooms, etc...  as well as, not using the death penalty, the deterrent factor DISAPPEARS and they view it as a "cost of doing business"... 

[propertymanager]

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local/article/armed_man_enters_bar_robs_patrons/25054/

There's obviously something wrong with this link, but here are texts of the article

"The suspect pointed the gun at the bartender and patrons, ordered everyone to the ground and to empty their pockets before demanding money from the bartender, police said.

During the robbery, the suspect fired a second shot into the ceiling."

How is this possible?  It is ILLEGAL in Ohio to carry a gun into a bar.  Maybe if FO and the socialists passed another law saying that they really really mean it that you can't carry guns into bars, this wouldn't have happened! 

"The suspect is described as a black male, 5’8” tall, weighing 150 pounds. 

He was wearing a black or dark gray hooded sweatshirt with white lettering on the front."

I think that any time someone from the black community (THAT HAS BEEN DEVESTATED BY THE SOCIALISTS AND THEIR ENTITLEMENT POLICIES) is involved in a crime, that we should arrest a socialist and throw them in jail!  This policy is in step with FO's idea of punishing the innocent and coddling the criminals.   What do you think FO?

[John_in_NC]

There are the same laws here that you aren't suppose to carry your gun into a bar even with a CC permit.

However, I figure, if I NEED my guy, then that is the only time anyone will know I have it, and then, I care more about my life than about the law. The truth is, I always have my gun on unless I have to go through a metal detector, like the courthouse or airport. And there have been times in the courthouse elevator I really wished I had it on!

I figure the chances of you needing a gun are slim, but are a bit greater in places like banks and bars

[sellnbama]

John,
Totally with you on that one,mine's on me all the time also.Our C/C law is kinda goofy to me,it says you're not supposed to have it at public events.Once you step outta your house is'nt everything else a "public event"?I figure I went to the trouble to register myself,that alone should be enough to over rule the POS who I had to shoot(who was'nt registered,probably stolen gun also).So I don't pay too much attention to the grey areas of the C/C permit.

[propertymanager]

Just for FurnishedOwner (and any other misguided socialists):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ