More Gun Insanity

[furnishedowner]

Yesterday, November 23rd, was the National Day of Outrage Against Gun Violence.  People protested in 30 cities against our epidemic of gun violence.

We are now 10 years past Columbine.  10 years of having the radicalized gun lobby continue to protest common sense gun control.  We continue with the same patchwork of state and Federal laws that don't work.

Just as the "Myth of Gun Control" video proved--you can't have gun control in one small area, like Washington DC, as it is useless. 

If we don't have universal laws putting away people with illegal guns, the carnage will continue.

It took Federal laws to get the automobile industry to create safer, more crash-worthy cars.  The automobile manufacturers fought it.

It took Federal laws to get Civil Rights all across the country.  Southern states fought it.

It's taken years of proposed legislation to get National affordable health care.  Conservatives and the health insurance industry are fighting it.

I predict that we WILL get Federal laws to control gun violence.  Conservatives and the NRA will fight it.

It will happen because the Canadian Ottawa Study proved that high numbers of guns belonging to a citizenry produces high numbers of gun deaths.

It will happen because people like me have HAD ENOUGH OF GUN VIOLENCE.  We are millions and millions and we will vote in tough new laws.

A house two blocks from mine, in our sleepy little burg, was shot up last night.  Riddled with bullets.  For no reason.  Everyone is mad about this.  Middle America is getting close to the tipping point on gun crime. 

Gun crime  is not going to go down, the sheer number of guns guarantees that.  We can't continue down the same road much longer.  IT IS NOT WORKING.  It is time for some Federal laws that will curb this madness.

Furnishedowner

[propertymanager]

Just as the "Myth of Gun Control" video proved--you can't have gun control in one small area, like Washington DC, as it is useless.

...or entire countries like England, unless you want gun violence to EXPLODE (when only criminals have guns).

If we don't have universal laws putting away people with illegal guns, the carnage will continue.

We already have universal laws against gun violence, however you socialists want to coddle criminals instead of throwing them in jail.  The perfect example is the felon that has been stalking me.  In the past few days, he was sentenced for felony theft of drugs and drug possession.  The trafficking charge was plea bargained away!  He has been arrested over 250 times and has several felony convictions, including assaulting a police officer.  His sentence...drum roll please...3 years community control (i.e. probation).  THANK YOU CRIMINAL CODDLING SOCIALISTS!!!

It took Federal laws to get Civil Rights all across the country.  Southern states fought it.

...and then the socialists literally DESTROYED the black community with their entitlement programs.

I predict that we WILL get Federal laws to control gun violence.  Conservatives and the NRA will fight it.

Federal laws won't control gun violence because you socialists aren't willing to punish criminals!  Furthermore, don't look now, but gun rights are expanding with 48 states now having some form of concealed carry!!!  The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT (not a right for militias or any of the other crap you socialists have been pushing).  Furthermore, if you socialists ever come for our guns in the U.S., there IS going to be shooting.  I'm not giving up my God-given rights without a FIGHT!

It will happen because people like me have HAD ENOUGH OF GUN VIOLENCE.  We are millions and millions and we will vote in tough new laws.

A BLATANT LIE!  If you socialists were tired of gun violence, you would PUNISH THE CRIMINALS instead of coddling them!

A house two blocks from mine, in our sleepy little burg, was shot up last night.  Riddled with bullets.  For no reason.  Everyone is mad about this.  Middle America is getting close to the tipping point on gun crime.

You're wrong - middle America is PAST the tipping point and WE ARE ARMING OURSELVES AND FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE CRIMINALS!!!  That's our right and you socialists WILL NOT TAKE THAT AWAY!

My suggestion FO is to move to Europe - you'd be a lot happier there!

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

"Yesterday, November 23rd, was the National Day of Outrage Against Gun Violence.  People protested in 30 cities against our epidemic of gun violence."

Juxtapose your 30 cities of gun control fanatics, which are planned ANNUALLY to the over 750 cities for the Tea Parties... which were NOT planned, and you can see which ones are more interested in maintaining their freedoms..


"We are now 10 years past Columbine.  10 years of having the radicalized gun lobby continue to protest common sense gun control.  We continue with the same patchwork of state and Federal laws that don't work."

I disagree...  they WORK when they are APPLIED... but if you are not going to ENFORCE the laws... MORE laws don't make a difference...  All you are doing is putting burdens on the LAW-ABIDING gun owners and taking their freedom, time AND money in the process, NOT the CRIMINALS... BTW, the CRIMINALS don't follow the EXISTING FEDERAL LAWS, what makes you think they will follow ADDITIONAL Federal laws???

"Just as the "Myth of Gun Control" video proved--you can't have gun control in one small area, like Washington DC, as it is useless."

A little Freudian slip there, Furnishedowner...  you SAY you don't want to take guns from people, but you use Washington DC, which showed CRIMINAL ACTIVITY EXPLODE after guns were taken away...  This DEMONSTRATES that CRIMINAL ACTIVITY will increase in areas that this is done, just like in England.  YOUR solution is not to ENFORCE EXISTING LAWS against CRIMINALS, but instead IMPOSE burdens and TAXATION on LAW-ABIDING gun owners...  makes all sorts of sense...   

"If we don't have universal laws putting away people with illegal guns, the carnage will continue. It took Federal laws to get the automobile industry to create safer, more crash-worthy cars.  The automobile manufacturers fought it."

Furnishedowner, is it your position that there are not currently FEDERAL LAWS that make it illegal for felons to use guns???

"It took Federal laws to get Civil Rights all across the country.  Southern states fought it."

The problem with your analogy is that treating everyone equal is laid out in the Declaration of Independence, which were backed up by the Constitution, as is INDIVIDUAL gun ownership, as was confirmed by the Supreme Court... this puts the onus on gun control fanatics to give LAW-ABIDING gun owners a reason THEY should have to be burdened when THEY don't commit the crimes.... the CRIMINALS DO! 


"It's taken years of proposed legislation to get National affordable health care.  Conservatives and the health insurance industry are fighting it."

Your problem here is it is not only "conservatives and the heatlh insurance industry" fighting it, the MAJORITY of Americans DO NOT WANT what is currently being proposed...  The Dems OWN the government right now, why do you think they are having so much trouble getting it through when they have FILLIBUSTER-PROOF majorities?  Could it be the same reason Obama's approval ratings are dropping like a stone while he promotes this more and more?  The Dem's in Congress see this...  People want change, just NOT what the Dems want...  The drops in the polls are BECAUSE they are IGNORING the people on this...


"It will happen because the Canadian Ottawa Study proved that high numbers of guns belonging to a citizenry produces high numbers of gun deaths."

Oh, I see, the CANDIAN study...  never mind all the OTHER studies done right here in America that PROVE what you want DOESN'T do what you want it to...   as one example, there has not been ONE peer-reviewed study to show gun-buy-back programs do what you want (i.e. - get guns from CRIMINALS), and that they are the LEAST LIKELY to be used in crimes, yet YOUR SOLUTION is to do MORE of what doesn't work, at a cost to the taxpayers... 


"I predict that we WILL get Federal laws to control gun violence.  Conservatives and the NRA will fight it. It will happen because people like me have HAD ENOUGH OF GUN VIOLENCE.  We are millions and millions and we will vote in tough new laws."

Millions and Millions???  Maybe...  but there are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS who feel the opposite...  besides, your "millions and millions" don't vote in new laws...  Your representatives do...  And unfortunately for you, with the Supreme Court backing up our position, and the states backing up our position with more and more adding CCW laws (and you'll note that the Dems currently have the MAJORITY of governorships), along with the TENS OF MILLIONS of LAW-ABDING gun owners, and that there are those willing to DEFEND their rights, the incidents of home-grown terrorism, the likelyhood of what you want has been dramatically reduced...  If they can't get it through with ALL THE POWER they currently have, what makes you think that your "nillions and millions" can get it through when they are a FRACTION of LAW-ABIDING gun owners????

"A house two blocks from mine, in our sleepy little burg, was shot up last night.  Riddled with bullets.  For no reason.  Everyone is mad about this.  Middle America is getting close to the tipping point on gun crime."

No reason?? They just decided to shoot up a house?  Now, that means that they CAUGHT the person(s) who did it, and were able to determine this as the reason, right?  No?  Then it is SPECULATION on your part, and CRIMINALS are usually the ones who shoot up a house, and it usually involves drugs and/or gangs...  Otherwise, it is an emotional response and one that does NOT address the problem...  kinda' like your "solutions"...

"Gun crime  is not going to go down, the sheer number of guns guarantees that.  We can't continue down the same road much longer.  IT IS NOT WORKING.  It is time for some Federal laws that will curb this madness."

Name SPECIFICALLY the federal law you want to enact that will affect CRIMINALS....

[furnishedowner]

Gun crime in England is DOWN, propertymanager.  Their gun control IS WORKING.  It is one of the countries in the world where you are least likely to be killed by gun violence.  I know you wish it wasn't so, but you can't manipulate that fact.

You keep suggesting that I move to another country.  I have lived in seven countries, so I have comparison-shopped;  I have chosen.  Except for inadequate health care and excessive gun violence, and a couple of other things, I am happy here.  

Now I would like to suggest that YOU, pm, move to another country.  You sound very unhappy.  

I was feeling sorry for your poor wife.  You took her to San Diego for a holiday and a nice concert, stayed in a 5-star hotel, and yet you were angry the whole time.  Those druggies!  Chanting Hare Krishnas! Scumbags!  Panhandlers!
It was sort of like you were in a 3rd World country, wasn't it?  When I am uncomfortable in a strange 3rd World country I take a cab to get to the sights. But you toughed it out, walking right downtown.

I hope those San Diego scumbags did not totally ruin your wife's vacation.  That she didn't have to sit across from you in a nice restaurant, 3 times a day, on vacation, and hear you go off on Criminal-Coddling Socialists! Kalifornia! Furnishedowner!  Liberals!
That would surely have ruined her mood.  Could even have brought on one of those dangerous Mom-Pop rages that gun violence fuels into.

There has to be a country where you could be happy.  Where you can be the vigilante that you want to be.  You could be a warlord, drive around and shoot every person who crosses you, who looks like a "scumbag".  Right now I can only think of perhaps Sudan, but others on this site may know of others.

Furnishedowner

[Hoosier4life2005]

PM loves with this country is SUPPOSED to stand for, and your DAMN RIGHT WE ARE UNHAPPY with what people like YOU are doing with this country.

Furnished.. how is halth care/gun laws Constitutional??????  If you just answer THAT I will shut up.  IF you cant answer that, then I suggest you change your views and stop being a tyrant.

Gun crime in England is DOWN, propertymanager.  Their gun control IS WORKING.  It is one of the countries in the world where you are least likely to be killed by gun violence.  I know you wish it wasn't so, but you can't manipulate that fact.

You keep suggesting that I move to another country.  I have lived in seven countries, so I have comparison-shopped;  I have chosen.  Except for inadequate health care and excessive gun violence, and a couple of other things, I am happy here.  

Now I would like to suggest that YOU, pm, move to another country.  You sound very unhappy.  

I was feeling sorry for your poor wife.  You took her to San Diego for a holiday and a nice concert, stayed in a 5-star hotel, and yet you were angry the whole time.  Those druggies!  Chanting Hare Krishnas! Scumbags!  Panhandlers!
It was sort of like you were in a 3rd World country, wasn't it?  When I am uncomfortable in a strange 3rd World country I take a cab to get to the sights. But you toughed it out, walking right downtown.

I hope those San Diego scumbags did not totally ruin your wife's vacation.  That she didn't have to sit across from you in a nice restaurant, 3 times a day, on vacation, and hear you go off on Criminal-Coddling Socialists! Kalifornia! Furnishedowner!  Liberals!
That would surely have ruined her mood.  Could even have brought on one of those dangerous Mom-Pop rages that gun violence fuels into.

There has to be a country where you could be happy.  Where you can be the vigilante that you want to be.  You could be a warlord, drive around and shoot every person who crosses you, who looks like a "scumbag".  Right now I can only think of perhaps Sudan, but others on this site may know of others.

Furnishedowner

[propertymanager]

You keep suggesting that I move to another country.  I have lived in seven countries, so I have comparison-shopped;  I have chosen.  Except for inadequate health care and excessive gun violence, and a couple of other things, I am happy here.

What a joke!  You are happy here except for everything this country stands for.  You are happy here IF the socialists take away our constitutional rights and turn our country into the United Socialist States of America.  You are happy here if you take the money from those of us that are successful and give it to deadbeats and scumbags.  You are happy here provided the government takes care of your every need and coddles criminals.  Please do us all a favor and move to Europe!

You are right, I am VERY unhappy that you socialists are trying to DESTROY THE VERY FABRIC OF OUR COUNTRY!  I am VERY unhappy that my children and grandchildren will be forced into a lower standard of living because you selfish socialists are stealing their future.  I am VERY unhappy that the socialists are perpetrating the global warming hoax (but I'm very happy that the hoax is being brought to light right before our eyes this week).  Hundreds of thousands of true Americans (as opposed to you cowardly socialists) have died to preserve our freedom and I'm mad as hell that you're trying to take it away!!!  You and your socialist friends are a disgrace to our country and should move (or be deported). 

Funny that you brought up my wife.  Did I mention that she's getting her concealed carry license next month?  I know that I didn't mention that she is an excellent shot with both a shotgun and handgun.  She's even been in a trap shooting league and owns her own shotgun and handgun.  She was as shocked as I was at the disgraceful conditions in the land of socialism.  Believe it or not, it is NOT NORMAL to see druggies and other homeless scumbags on every corner here in Ohio.  It's just one more example of the success of your socialistic programs - homeless deadbeats and scumbags everywhere in the land of socialism.  Good job.

Finally, gun crime is only down slightly in England after it EXPLODED when guns were banned.  Obviously, it couldn't just keep getting worse and worse, or there wouldn't be a single person left alive.  Gun control didn't work in England; it hasn't worked in Chicago; it didn't work in Nazi Germany; didn't work in China; didn't work in the Soviet Union; hasn't worked in Washington D.C. (the murder capital of the US) - IT DOESN'T WORK ANYWHERE!  Gun control is a total failure.  The answer to crime is to punish the criminals - something that is not politically correct for you socialists.

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

Furnishedowner - "Gun crime  is not going to go down, the sheer number of guns guarantees that.  We can't continue down the same road much longer.  IT IS NOT WORKING.  It is time for some Federal laws that will curb this madness."

Positiveoutlook - "Name SPECIFICALLY the federal law you want to enact that will affect CRIMINALS...."


Well, as we can see, you HAVE NO federal law to enact that actually affects the CRIMINALS, so it brings your whole premise of not wanting to take peoples guns away into question...  If not, tell us what federal law ABOVE WHAT ALREADY EXISTS for CRIMINALS will actually affect CRIMIINALS....

[furnishedowner]

propertymanager,
Another anti-Socialist rant from you.  How convenient it must be to blame every perceived wrong onto  the "Socialists".  This eliminates the need for you to do ANY critical thinking of your own, whatsoever.

How far does this go?  If your trash pickup is late, it is the Socialists?  If your Chicken McNuggets go up in price, the Socialists?  Who ARE these nefarious Socialists?!  You ever heard of a psychological trait called, "projection"?  Where your own shortcomings...

I am a Registered Democrat.  Used to be an Independent, then I realized that I really was voting Democratic every time, so why not just be it, the shoe fit most of the time.  But you continue to call me a Socialist.  I suppose I could call you a Vigilante Anarchist in every other sentence, too, but it seems so futile.

What is clear is that this real estate site is mainly populated by ultra-right conservatives.  People who rant.  People who don't want to try to solve problems, or even debate them!  People who blame all problems on others.  The ultra-conservative do-nothings.  JUST LEAVE IT ALL ALONE.

I am for CHANGE.  I will vote CHANGE every time I see our country veering off the constitutional path.  I am for LIFE, for not being shot like tens of thousand of others in a drive-by shooting, a mall rampage, an accidental homicide.

PosOutlook,
I proposed a whole slew of possible laws that could affect criminals.  Just read back in this thread.
I especially like what they did in England.  If you are in possession of an unlicensed gun, you go to jail for 5 years.  That should work.
That should stop the car full of gang-bangers, when they are pulled over by the police.  They will have an unlicensed, probably stolen gun.  The whole car full of those hoods can now be sent up for 5 years.
That stolen gun is then removed from the street.  Your own gun, at home, is licensed.  You are free to defend yourself with it. That law should impact the criminals in a major way.

Furnishedowner 

[propertymanager]

Who ARE these nefarious Socialists?!

YOU ARE!  And every person in this country who coddles criminals while expecting government to control every aspect of our lives!

I proposed a whole slew of possible laws that could affect criminals.  Just read back in this thread.
I especially like what they did in England.  If you are in possession of an unlicensed gun, you go to jail for 5 years.  That should work.

What a joke!  You socialists aren't willing to punish criminals for violating laws that are currently on the books.  So, why would we think that you would actually enforce any new laws that you passed!  It's just a perverted joke!

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

"People who blame all problems on others. "

FO....  the problem here is you are blaming the LAW-ABIDING gun owners and not the criminals, and your only answer is more government intrusion on LAW-ABIDING gun owners...  NONE of what you have suggested TOUCHES the CRIMINALS...  show us how it does...


"I proposed a whole slew of possible laws that could affect criminals.  Just read back in this thread."

Yes, and NONE of them affect the CRIMINALS...  only the LAW-ABIDING gun owners... how don't you see this at this point?...

"I especially like what they did in England.  If you are in possession of an unlicensed gun, you go to jail for 5 years.  That should work."

Now we get to the heart of it... on the one hand, you say you are not interested in taking away the guns, but then you say you like what England did, which is take away the guns... which is it?

"That should stop the car full of gang-bangers, when they are pulled over by the police.  They will have an unlicensed, probably stolen gun.  The whole car full of those hoods can now be sent up for 5 years."

Uhm...  it is ALREADY illegal for them to have ILLEGAL guns and using them in ILLEGAL activity... and it does NOT stop them now...  they TELL us that they DON'T CARE about the laws.. this is documented and why EXISTING federal laws do not stop them...  If they fail the NCIS (which 56% of those who apply are felons do - with 92% of the checks being done via phone), they will just buy it ILLEGALLY...  which is what they do NOW...  so, try again...

"That stolen gun is then removed from the street.  Your own gun, at home, is licensed.  You are free to defend yourself with it. That law should impact the criminals in a major way."

First, you ASSUME it is a stolen gun, and not a black-market illegal gun...  We are in agreement that heavier sentences would potentially have an impact, but unfortunately, the sentences are rarely carried to their full term (lost deterrent) and are also only part of the solution...  the MAIN problem is sociological...  broken families, boys without fathers or male influences, being born into one our government inner cities (3 out of the top 5 violent crime cities are in strict gun control areas - explain that), etc...  The guys who end up in prison for gun crimes will most likely fall into the same situation when they get out... 

So your above solution is really a non-solution as you are expecting CRIMINALS to obey the law when they IGNORE the EXISTING ONES NOW...  buy-backs are a waste of time and money as they are the LEAST LIKELY to be used in any crime, and is only a "feel good" program... 



To me, if heavier sentences were to have any meaning, the terms would have to be carried out, and the only shorted time would be 6 months before the final date, but it would have to be coupled with making prison a place they DO NOT want to return to.... as it stands now, it has to many comforts...  It needs to be an environment where they have to really think... Man, do I really want to return to that place???  Couple it with opportunities to learn a trade, or get an education...  but it has to be earned...  They should have to WORK to pay off their financial debt while in prison...  with the emphasis that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE for them...

All that said, there are people who will NEVER be mainstreamed no matter what we do...  until we are ready to remove the COMFORTS that people on the outside don't enjoy (free gym membership, cable/satellite TV, free food, free internet, free medical care, etc.), it REMOVES the deterrent factor...

[PositiveOutlook]

P.S. - So Furnishedowner, to be clear, your FEDERAL LAW solution to CRIMINALS getting guns is a 5-year prison sentence after they ALREADY have the illegal guns...  is that right?  Even though they IGNORE the laws that they use the illegal guns for, which carry heavier prison terms (i.e. - gun death)...  so how does that work???  If they don't care about a long prison term for KILLING SOMEONE, why do you think they will care MORE about a 5-year prison term???

On top of that... what do you then do to suicides who don't finish the job...  5 years prison???  After all, the MAJORITY (twice the number of CRIMINAL gun deaths) are suicides...


We've been telling you all along, we think that the SOLUTION is that the CRIMINALS should have to punished, NOT the LAW-ABIDING gun owners...  you are just not listening and want to punish the wrong people....  Came across something interesting and I thought of you...

"For instance, in Thomas Jefferson’s "Commonplace Book," a quote from Cesare Beccaria reads, "laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

[furnishedowner]

Both propertymanager and PosOutlook go on at length about how criminals are not obeying the current laws about guns.

That is my point exactly.  THE CURRENT LAWS DON'T WORK!

You can't have a gun-free zone in a high-crime area if guns are freely available nearby. It makes no sense.  Of course it won't work.

Gun buy-backs DO work; the Oakland experience was an example.  But they have got to be extended and monitored.  They can't just be a place for gun dealers to dump unwanted merchandise.

I ask for a national  dialogue on how to lessen gun violence.  I ask for NEW FEDERAL LAWS, Universal Laws, that get rid of the patchwork of state and community laws that aren't working.

We're a nation of smart people that have done a lot of incredible things.  Surely we can find common ground that will allow citizens to have firearms in a safer manner.

You can't drive an unlicensed, unregistered vehicle.  You must have a Driver's License as well, you must have demonstrated driving proficiency and knowledge of driving laws.  You pay a fee every year for your registered vehicle.  You must have liability insurance or proof of means.  Yet not one of you is complaining about these common-sense laws that keep us all safer.

I am asking for the same.  Carry a licensed, registered gun.  Pass a test demonstrating knowledge of how to use it, and of gun laws.  Pay a fee for the ministering of this service.

Many of you have concealed-carry permits.  Could we not extend this licensing to ALL guns?

What I am looking for is a means to jail criminals.  Criminals who commit crimes with their unlicensed, unregistered guns.  Let's put them away for gun crimes.

The prisons today are heinous enough.  Ask anyone who has been there.  We don't have to return to Medieval Torture chambers.  The deterrants in prisons are the OTHER PRISONERS.  Like being locked up with a bunch of pit bulls who can turn on you at any time, for any reason.  Prisoners are not being coddled;  no one wants to go back.

I want to get criminals off the streets.  I want the whole nation to wake up to the fact that we can't carry on like this--with this level of gun violence.  I want every hoodlum to know that carrying that unlicensed, unregistered gun is going to get him serious jail time.  Guaranteed.

Furnishedowner

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

"That is my point exactly.  THE CURRENT LAWS DON'T WORK!"

So how does enacting YOUR solution of 5 years for a "unlicensed" gun, act as any more of a deterrent of MURDER charges with a gun, which murder itself carries a stiffer sentence???

"You can't have a gun-free zone in a high-crime area if guns are freely available nearby. It makes no sense.  Of course it won't work."

Guns will ALWAYS be available in ALL areas, whether they are purchased legally OR illegally... the difference is that CRIMINALS now know they have LESS a chance of being opposed by a victim, which is WHY 3 out of the top 5 cities with violent crimes have STRICT gun control...  how do you EXPLAIN this???  SUPPORT your position with more than just opinion...

This gives MORE insight to what to REALLY want... England-law... no guns for anyone...


"Surely we can find common ground that will allow citizens to have firearms in a safer manner."

It is NOT the LAW-ABIDING gun owners that are the problem, it is the CRIMINALS... 


"You can't drive an unlicensed, unregistered vehicle.  You must have a Driver's License as well, you must have demonstrated driving proficiency and knowledge of driving laws.  You pay a fee every year for your registered vehicle.  You must have liability insurance or proof of means.  Yet not one of you is complaining about these common-sense laws that keep us all safer."

Furnishedowner, driving is a PRIVILEGE and NOT a right... there is a MAJOR difference...  we have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms...  as far as insurance goes, I believe you pay HIGHER insurances (home, life, etc.) if you own a gun and it is disclosed...

"Many of you have concealed-carry permits.  Could we not extend this licensing to ALL guns?"

This is probably the BEST way to demonstrate the inanity of your position....  how does forcing licensing, taxes, permits, etc...  STOP CRIMINALS from obtaining ILLEGAL guns, whether it is a STOLEN registered gun or a BLACK-MARKET gun???  ANSWER the question, if you want to have a SERIOUS discussion on this...

"I am asking for the same.  Carry a licensed, registered gun.  Pass a test demonstrating knowledge of how to use it, and of gun laws.  Pay a fee for the ministering of this service".

First, SHOW US how this stops CRIMINALS from killing with guns...  if it does NOT, WHAT IS THE POINT???  The two highest amounts of gun deaths are CRIMINAL gun deaths and suicide...  So how does this address either???  Answer the question or stop pretending you are serious about this...

"The prisons today are heinous enough.  Ask anyone who has been there.  We don't have to return to Medieval Torture chambers.  The deterrants in prisons are the OTHER PRISONERS.  Like being locked up with a bunch of pit bulls who can turn on you at any time, for any reason.  Prisoners are not being coddled;  no one wants to go back."

LOL... and this is EXACTLY what we mean when we say you want to coddle the criminals.... WHY should they enjoy, and US PAY FOR TO BOOT, all the amenities that ALOT of hard-working people don't???  FREE gym membership, FREE healthcare, FREE Internet, FREE satellite/cable TV, etc.... while they are serving time for a crime THEY committed???  REMOVE these AMENITIES to INCREASE the deterrent... 

"I want to get criminals off the streets.  I want the whole nation to wake up to the fact that we can't carry on like this--with this level of gun violence.  I want every hoodlum to know that carrying that unlicensed, unregistered gun is going to get him serious jail time.  Guaranteed."

We are very close to an actual agreement on this...  unfortunately, you don't want them to actually serve real time... you want to give them all the comforts of home PLUS all the extra's...  They ALREADY will serve MORE time for a gun death than what you are proposing... and it does NOT stop them now...

[furnishedowner]

I want them to serve time for just having that unlicensed gun.  Not just for a gun death!  I want STIFFER penalties.  Getting unlicensed guns off the streets will lessen gun crimes.  It's easy access to guns that causes gun deaths.  It's the Liquor Store hold-up with a gun. It's the angry teenager with a gun.  It's the jealous husband with a gun.

Putting someone in prison is not coddling them. You have got to be kidding.  No, you don't remove health care from the prison population.  It would be barbaric and beneath us as a society.  The prisoners are not getting Botox, they get insulin and antibiotics.  Prisons are hell as they are.  I am talking about your average prison, not where Martha Stewart or white-collar criminals are incarcerated.

Furnishedowner

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,


"I want them to serve time for just having that unlicensed gun.  Not just for a gun death!  I want STIFFER penalties."

The problem with what you want is that a person, whose ONLY CRIME is an unlicensed gun, gets 5 years...  that's just plain STUPID that he would get 5 years for having something he has a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to in the first place...

What difference would the additional 5 years make anyway... they'll just get out in half the time anyway BECAUSE they are coddled....


"Getting unlicensed guns off the streets will lessen gun crimes."

So your thinking is that getting unlicensed guns will stop them from acquiring illegal ones anyway?  What do you base this on?  The reason I ask is that the FBI reports that 56% of applicants for background checks are felons.  Now they went through that process, what makes you think they will not find a way to get a gun?  They WILL find a way, if that is what they want...  which is WHY their is still gun deaths in England a decade after they removed ALL guns...


"It's easy access to guns that causes gun deaths.  It's the Liquor Store hold-up with a gun. It's the angry teenager with a gun.  It's the jealous husband with a gun."

What makes you think having the guns licensed would have STOPPED the liquor store hold-up with an UNLICENSED or STOLEN gun, or the angry teenager OR the jealous husband???  Licensing would have done NOTHING to prevent any of those...  this is what you don't seem to be getting...

"Putting someone in prison is not coddling them. You have got to be kidding."

It is if you are giving them ALL the amenities that they DON'T GET on the outside...  Free gym membership, FREE healthcare, FREE Dental, Free Internet, Free cable/satellite TV, etc...

"No, you don't remove health care from the prison population.  It would be barbaric and beneath us as a society."

Who said anything about removing it...  I said they have to EARN it through work while in prison...


"The prisoners are not getting Botox, they get insulin and antibiotics."

WRONG... there are cases of sex-change operations, plastic surgery, etc...  on top of this, the CRIMINALS GET what people who are on the outside STRUGGLE to get, partly because they are paying for CRIMINALS luxuries through higher taxes...  They cost taxpayer BILLIONS EVERY YEAR...

"Prisons are hell as they are.  I am talking about your average prison, not where Martha Stewart or white-collar criminals are incarcerated."

Obviously not hell enough...  they have LOST their deterrent factor...