So now the question is...

[PositiveOutlook]

For those who STILL believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming, aka- Man-made global warming... After not only the CRU which the IPCC based their report on have been found fabricating evidence, among other shenanigans, and the IPCC ITSELF under fire after having been caught in more than one PURE FABRICATION in their reports to push a political agenda DESPITE their charter saying that they are supposed to the opposite, and now NASA GISS having problems with their data... the BASIS for Man-Made global warming is based on a house of cards and has been exposed for what it is... 

So has it at the very least caused you to QUESTION what you are being sold?

[Bluemoon06]

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE POLAR BEARS ?!?

[furnishedowner]

What about the receding glaciers?
What about the earlier Springs?
What about the never-seen-before massive calving of ice shelves?
What about the rising sea levels impacting island nations?

The data on man-made CO 2 and its effects is now accepted world wide as fact, not theory.

If the earth's ecosysytems will self-correct, or what the full effect will be is not known.  You can base your disbelief on some discounted documents or data.  But the real data is coming from the observable changes.

Furnishedowner

[tatertot]

[[[....What about the rising sea levels impacting island nations?...]]]

You don't listen closely enough. Nobody ever says that sea levels are rising. What they actually say, over and over, is "the threat of rising sea levels."  As in, I'm going to threaten you with rising sea levels because it might happen in the future. Same as "I am going to threaten you will go to Hell if you don't do what I say".

The seas can not rise in one place and stay the same everywhere else. It's impossible. That's the simple law of hydraulics. That's physics, not opinion. If the sea level isn't rising in Oregon (and it isn't), then it can not be rising in Hawaii.

[sellnbama]

Weird how the anti govt hippie crowd is now the govt is great and can fix anything group.I guess the magic dust makes a buttload of "new" water to cause the levels to rise.... ........too funny,really.

[furnishedowner]

You're right, Tatertot.  There is a THREAT of rising sea levels. Some of the low-lying island nations are now starting to make evacuation plans. I just heard a minister from the Seychelles;  they're taking it very seriously there.

You are also wrong, Tatertot.  The sea level CAN rise in one place and not in another.  That happens in a huge way every day, called "tides".  The ocean can rise and lower many feet due to the moon's pull.

The sea level can rise because of low atmospheric pressure.  That is called a storm surge.

The surface of the ocean is also lower where the ocean is shallow.  Where there are deep underwater trenches the surface of the ocean is actually HIGHER.  This is because there is less gravitational mass pulling the ocean down.  So Hawaii and coastal Oregon might actually have different heights of the top of the sea, different sea levels, albeit a small amount.

The melting of ice bergs shouldn't cause ocean rise, there is already the displacement.  But if the ice shelf on Greenland, a huge land mass, melts the sea level will rise.  It will take a long time (a year?) for this freshmelt to equalize in the world's oceans.  That's when it will impact low-lying islands.  That's why anything (manmade CO 2) that increases the melt could be so harmful to our standard of living.  That's why it's being taken seriously by top scientists throughout the world.

sellnbama, you're pretty funny yourself.  Maybe you bin smokin' some of that home-grown stuff?  You just spout the same old without doing any thinking.

Furnishedowner

[Hoosier4life2005]

Yeah.. bama is the one not thinking.. 


Global Warming is just one of the many things our government tries to BS to the American people.  Enough said.

[sellnbama]

  Yeah I don't think....... .I just know a load of  when I hear it.Go ahead,send all your money to Al Gore so he can pay off mother nature to settle down.I'm all for reducing our emissions but you've watched too,too many "panic the sky is falling,,but the govt can save the day" campaigns.Maybe if fata$$ hypocrits like Al Gore did'nt have 20 thousand square ft houses and fly around selling BS(making mega $$) that would help reduce alot too.


  Do you buy all that crap off the infomercial channel too??
     

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

Look at you!  Stretching that "I'm not a scientist so I'll leave it to the them" brain of yours... I don't have time to post tonight, but I wanted to acknowledge that you are at least reading something else besides the "life and drama of Tiger Woods" tabloid fodder... well done...  you're off track, but at least you are reading...

[furnishedowner]

Pos,
I was a Biology major in college so I love science.  The incredible complexity and intricacy of the natural world constantly amazes me.  Nothing is simple and the beauty is in the way it all meshes together.

Furnishedowner

[Bluemoon06]

"life and drama of Tiger Woods"

Like Chris Rock said "A man is only as faithful as his options"

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

"What about the receding glaciers?"

What about them?  They have receded before and will again... why do think Greenland is called GREENland???

 
"What about the earlier Springs?"
 
The sun and orbtial patterns have more to do with this than CO2...

"What about the never-seen-before massive calving of ice shelves?"

NEVER before seen???  You do understand that this has been happening since the last ice age right?  

"What about the rising sea levels impacting island nations?"

Do you realize the sea levels raised HUNDREDS of feet PRIOR to the industrial revolution?  In addition...

Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told', Telegraph.uk.co, 28 Mar 2009

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

From the article - "And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story."

In addition - "When asked to act as an "expert reviewer" on the IPCC's last two reports, he was "astonished to find that not one of their 22 contributing authors on sea levels was a sea level specialist: not one".

"When running the International Commission on Sea Level Change, he launched a special project on the Maldives, whose leaders have for 20 years been calling for vast sums of international aid to stave off disaster. Six times he and his expert team visited the islands, to confirm that the sea has not risen for half a century. Before announcing his findings, he offered to show the inhabitants a film explaining why THEY HAD NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. The government refused to let it be shown."

"One of his most shocking discoveries was why the IPCC has been able to show sea levels rising by 2.3mm a year. Until 2003, even its own satellite-based evidence showed no upward trend. But suddenly the graph tilted upwards because the IPCC's favoured experts had drawn on the finding of a single tide-gauge in Hong Kong harbour showing a 2.3mm rise. The entire global sea-level projection was then adjusted upwards by a "corrective factor" of 2.3mm, because, as the IPCC scientists admitted, they "needed to show a trend"."

"The data on man-made CO 2 and its effects is now accepted world wide as fact, not theory."

Which data are you referring to?  The "hockey stick" data (debunked) - the most cited data for those who originaly pushed Global Warming, the CRU manipulated data that is now under question that has been used as the BASIS for the IPCC, or should we use the LIMITED (ignoring the colder ones, and using the warmer ones) temperature data that the NOAA, GISS and CRU used as the BASIS for their reports AND computer modeling which has FAILED time and time again to create accurate real-world predictions, or how it not only did not predict the current COOLING, but how it did not also predict the record INactivity of hurricanes... on what data would you like us to believe is "accepted world wide as fact".  

"If the earth's ecosysytems will self-correct, or what the full effect will be is not known."  

Yes, THINK about this... the TOTAL man-made CO2 (from what I've read is 3-5%) is a FRACTION of the actual worldwide total of CO2.. the REST is ALL NATURALLY CREATED...  The argument goes that nature's CO2 balances itself out and that ours is anathema that throws it out of balance... only problem with that is that man CREATES more vegetation than nature would have by itself. As an example, there are MORE trees to day (and new growth consumes MORE CO2 than old growth) in the USA BECAUSE we intervene in nature taking its course through forest fires from lightning and other sources (which ALSO create CO2), desease, etc...

"You can base your disbelief on some discounted documents or data."

Discounted documents or data????     These are the SAME documents and data that, which are now being scrutinized and DEBUNKED, that you and the rest of the global warming crowd were so willing to BASE the spending of TRILLIONS of dollars, burdening EVERYONE, while Gore and Paucheri et al were MAKING MONEY off it, WITHOUT questioning it or ALLOWING it to be questioned, which is what science is SUPPOSED to do...  This is why it is STILL an UNPROVEN THEORY...  What is astounding to me, is that you are not only CONTINUING to follow the kool-aide line on global warming, you are not even showing ANY indignation for BEING LIED TO and manipulated, and almost literally having money TAKEN from you to support a fraud...

Add to this, CO2 is the MINUTE player in the greenhouse play...

"But the real data is coming from the observable changes."

Following your line of thinking... we are WITNESSING record cold temps when the IPCC and computer models predicted we would have RECORD warming... now what?

Its ALL boils down to money...

Does not ANY of this cause you to QUESTION what you are being SOLD!...

[furnishedowner]

Dang, Pos, you have just done another position paper on your belief in the discrediting of global warming.

Greenland was warmer once, but not by much.  Erik the Red explored Greenland when he was banished from Iceland, due to the matter of a few killings.

Erik named the land "Gronland" (Greenland) in order to attract more settlers, not because it was green.  It was basically false advertising.  The southern part is ice-free some of the year around the coasts.

Erik's colony eventually died out due to harsh conditions.

Furnishedowner

[PositiveOutlook]

Furnishedowner,

THAT was what you latched onto??? Greenland???  And yet you AVOID all the rest... Speaks volumes...      FYI...

Fossil DNA Proves Greenland Once Had Lush Forests; Ice Sheet Is Surprisingly Stable. Science Daily...

http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:raUqWFZs03wJ:www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070705153019.htm+was+greenland+once+green&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8

Let's cover a simple one... what is the ideal temperature? 

[furnishedowner]

Pos,
Your SCIENCE DAILY ("Your Source For The Latest Research News")  noted that the lush forests were half a million years ago.  Greenland hasn't been green in a loooong while.

Your same source had these other related stories headlined:

"Record Warm Summers Cause Extreme Ice Melt in Greenland" (Jan 2008)

"Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheet Melting, Rate Unknown" (Feb 2009)

"Freshwater Runoff From Greenland Ice Sheet will More Than Double by End of Century" (June 2008)

"Greenland Ice Cap Melting Faster Than Ever" (Nov 2009)
and
"Faster Rise in Sea Level Predicted From Melting Greenland Ice Sheet, Based on Lessons From Ice Age" (Sept 2008).

According to SCIENCE DAILY..."we are now confronted with global warming..." and "Please note:  The scientists do not want to put into question the rise in sea level predicted to occur due to global warming."

Many, many research projects have come to the same conclusion.  The mainstream scientists are the voices that I find have the most validity.  I don't really care that we go into another major warming or cooling period in another million years.  I care about the effects now in my lifetime, and my kids' lifetime.  I care about the manmade effects that we can mitigate.  That we HAVE to mitigate.

It's simply too important to dismiss this as just controversial.  We WILL continue to get data, and it can not be ignored.  I stand with the mainstream scientists on this.

I leave you to debate or discount the data further, as you wish. I have no more time to spend on this. But in the meantime, the ice is melting.

Furnishedowner