9/11 Conspiracy or Not?

[rookieNYC]

Im watching this show right now and have watched it before and I can tell you I want to strangle that little puke college kid who wrote Loose Change..And I wouldnt mind taking aim at some of those lowlife mother******* who go to the WTC site on the anniversary to march and debate people who are there to mourn lost family members..How dare they...I lost 2 childhood friends in this event both FDNY and both alot braver than I ever hope to be and I can tell you this type of *free speech* sickens me..This show debunks every conspiracy theory and yet these *free speech* lowlifes still persist..What kind of moron thinks that this was a conspiracy inside our Government to let this happen..Like those planes werent flow into the WTC,like those phone calls didnt happen from the planes to loved ones,like Osama Bin Laden doesnt exist...Its ridiculous...Sorry for the rant...

[Hoosier4life2005]

I have to agree. I believe our Government is very corrupt, and many Conspiracies have alot of backbone to them but 9/11 isnt one of them. 


However, with that said, I cant put ANYTHING past our Government.

[propertymanager]

Yep, it's ridiculous!  Since they think that the towers were brought down by explosives, I'd like to know what kind of explosives could survive having a large jet crash into them, so that they could be detonated an hour later and cause a controlled demolition?  The huge explosion from the crash; the fireball; the fire - none of that affected the explosives that George Bush personally planted (after sneaking out of the White House)?  That would be some mighty fancy demolition work!!!   

[rookieNYC]

Mike,
 I have to question how deranged these people are..I mean how blankin stupid do these people have to be to think this tragedy was an inside job..Watching this show does nothing but anger me..I still remember 9/11,I was standing with my dad cause I was off that week (watching TV)..First thing my father said is that building is going to come down after he saw the plane hit..He said there is no way that top load wont come down since the middle support was sheered apart by the crash of the plane..Infact I think the building wouldve come down irregardless of the heat from the fuel..But what gets me the most is how dare these idiots go to the WTC site on the anniversaries and debate with people who are there to mourn...

[John_in_NC]

I wish we were more focused on WHY these groups of people hate us this bad. And WHY they didn't 40-50 years ago. Only when we finally address these issues will we really address the problem. Bombing them, well for every one we kill you create two more.

Sorry to hear you lost friends from such a horrible event Rookie.

[rookieNYC]

John NC,
Ty...and the wars that followed are entire different debate..How do you feel about these airline screeners?..I mean these people that try to ignite these underwear bombs etc are going to cause racial profiling in due time IMO...

[Hoosier4life2005]

Ron Pauls solution?

Get rid of the FAA.  Completely privatize.  You think 9/11 would have happened if everybody was allowed to carry guns?  (More than likely, a privatized airline would allow passengers to carry guns).


Also, our world policing has alot to do with why these people hate us.  We need to look in the mirror and see what were doing to cause them to hate us.

How would WE feel if China has troops walking down our streets?  I GAURANTEE people would want to kill China.  Same situation with alot of other people in other countries..

[John_in_NC]

Well, some would argue it was the actions of the US before 9/11 that caused it. Here is a video of ron paul predicting 9/11 back in 1998, like so many other things he predicted, he was 100% right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5lcF-_WEAc

As for the airport screeners, they are a waste of money and time. They are no better than private ones before 9/11 and cost a great deal more to the taxpayers now. I deal with them on an almost daily basis at my job. The one flaw that will never be fixed is the human element. Humans make mistakes and will continue to make them. TSA employees are more concerned about the clock than security, it's nothing more than a big inconvenience for millions in my opinion. If a group of radicals want to attack again, they will. The aircraft I fly has a MAJOR security flaw that would allow any would be attacker to easily get a handgun or a long gun on board, that completely bypasses the TSA. I've addressed this more than once with the proper individuals at my company and nobody seems to care.

Like I said, the real problem has to do with US foreign policy and an oblivious tax paying population.

[sellnbama]

 That reminds me of those idiots blaming govt for "blowing up the levees" during Katrina.Sometimes I look around at the stupidity of people and it explains how we get incompetent elected leaders.

 "The public school system in this country has successfully dumbed down enough people that idiots can triumph our political system"--Rush Limbaugh

[NJbird_dog]

To say that 9/11 was done by our own government, by people within congress, or by Bush himself.... would be wrong. People who jump to these simplistic conclusions are the reason that every question asked about 9/11 is labeled as a conspiracy theory.

But to accept 9/11 as the official story is told, without questioning the hundreds of CONSPIRACY-LIKE questions, facts, actions, etc.......is also WRONG.

Most of the 9/11 truth movements ask for one thing: Re-open the investigation and give some real answers to all the unexplainable events that took place.

"Loose change" was a film that didn't scratch the surface of the investigation. If you base your whole investigation on that one film, then it doesn't make sense. The people who are there on 9/11 to march to re-open the investigation have a reason to be there. There are plenty of people who are mourning AND ALSO MARCHING to get some real answers.

Sorry to hear that you lost 2 close friends. I live in NJ and I have friends who lost loved ones. It's their responsibility to look further into the events that changed our human history as we know it and to NOT blindly accept the story that mass media fed to us.

Here's an example, how did the identify one of the hijackers? Well according to the official 9/11 report, once the plane hit the building, the guy's passport flew out of the plane, through the smoke/flames/explosions, and safely landed on the sidewalk where it was picked up by NYPD and traced back to the hijacker. Ummm OK. And that's just a needle in the haystack of things that make no sense.

Which show are you referring to that debunks every theory? I hope it's not the Popular Mechanics you're referring to.

[NJbird_dog]

Also to add to your comment..


The designers/builders of the WTC were interviewed many times and have said that the towers were built to withstand the impact of the biggest plane of their time. The hijacked planes were NOT bigger than that plane.

As for the jet fuel, media outlets agree that the majority of the fuel was burnt off during the impact as seen in the fireball explosions. So the fuel couldn't have spread throughout the towers to magnify the heat.

Even if somehow the fuel trickled down every floor of the towers and magnified the heat, it still wouldn't have caused it to collapse. Why? Because like the reports also say, fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel.

Ok, so if the fuel can't burn hot enough, then maybe if you throw in the office furniture, papers, chairs, carpets, ETC.. then it'll make the fire hot enough to melt steel.

Ok, so the steel melts, the towers collapse and then..........turn to powder and dust? No major wreckage at all? A few weeks later satellite thermography still shows pools of molten metal hot spots at thousands of degrees which couldn't have remained from fuel burning with basic things.


Let's not even get into tower # 7, the tower that wasn't eve hit but collapsed into its own footprint later on that day.

[rookieNYC]

NJ Bird Dog,
 You cant fly a 747,DC 10,MD 90 plane at 500 mph into the middle of a skyscraper and expect any building to the withstand the load that is left above the crash..It clearly took out major supports upon impact..This professional demolition theory was debunked by professionals..It wouldve taken 100 men up to 6-8 months to properly drill and cut into every support I Beam in the WTC and put shape charges around everything..And they would have had to have done this in a cloak of secrecy,past the CCTV,past the security guards,past the maintenance crews,past the PA police,past the private security,past the many round the clock trading firms in that building...IMPOSSIBLE..The drilling wouldve been immense..

As for the passport that mysteriously flew down to the ground..That does sound odd but all the same the FBI,NTSB *easily* identified the terrorists on video footage going past security screeners..

The show I watched was called 9/11 Conspiracy or Theory..And they used professionals in every industry to debunk *every* claim made by those college pukes at Loose Change and that other nutjob who claims that *the US govt* used thermite instead of shape charges to take down buildings.Which still wouldnt change the army of men it wouldve taken to place these thermite collars around *HUNDREDS* of I Beams...He also wrote not 1 not 2 but 4 books on his ridiculous claims(and Im sure he gave that money to the 9/11 victims fund...NOT)..And I have personally spoken to people who have lost family members *sons* and I have spoken to the mothers,fathers..And never once did this ridiculous notion that a concealed deliberate conspiracy opinion arise....As for the fires that you said raged on..Do you know how much material it takes to build a skyscraper?...Thousands upon thousands miles of wires,PVC pipe (which is toxic when burned),asbestos ceiling tiles (millions)...Ofcourse the fire would go on for a long time..Anyone with any type of construction or engineering background would *easily* understand this..The theories were debunked *multiple* times using *professionals* and the *LIARS* as they should be called still squirmed their way out of the proven data..Why?..Because they care so much about the truth?..No...Because they dont want to stop their gravy train of $$ being brought in by an army of *morons* who believe anything that comes out of their mouth..

I will say it again..On the morning of 9/11 I was watching the first building burn and then the second plane hit..My father who has been in construction for 50 years and builds homes said to me "that building is going to come down"...It took seconds for him to come to this conclusion..Him and I have had this conversation and he gives the explanation on how and why..Once you take out the mid or even 10-15 floors below the roof support that load cannot be supported and will start a chain reaction blowing out supports and walls on the way down..

And a professional pilot and Im sure there are others here who can attest to this...When a *typical* plane crash occurs the pilot tries to slow down the plane and *save lives* so there is much more debris..This was quite the opposite..These terrorists had these planes topped out at 500+ mph..So what kind of debris do you expect to find in regard to the body of the aircrafts..

[fdjake]

As far as I know I'm the only one here that actually spends time in BURNING BUILDINGS....

Those buildings came down for a few very simple reasons.....

STRUCTURAL COMPROMISE and FIRE LOAD....

Fire load is the AMOUNT of combustable material IN a structure.  When the Towers got hit the impact of the planes immediately disabled the sprinkler system by taking out the majority of supply lines feeding it.

Once the jet fuel ignited the fire load it was just a matter of time before the steel started to EXPAND.....YES, that's right....NONE of the steel in the WTC "MELTED."  
STEEL expands, THEN bends & twists when heated.  If you remember, those towers DID NOT come down right away from the impact....It took OVER 20 minutes for that FIRE to weaken the steel before those towers came down....EACH tower took almost the same amount of time because it took the same amount of time for the STEEL to reach a temp. were it started to fail.

In Firefighting this is a very well known and common problem....COUNTLESS Firefighters have lost their lifes due to steel trusses expanding due to high heat conditions, then after the expansion (which WEAKENS the steel, individual trusses begin to fail....Once a single truss is compromised it's a domino effect from there.

The Towers had MASSIVE structural damage caused by the initial impact,  add in the jet fuel igniting a HUGE fire load, with NO OPERATING SPRINKLER SYSTEM that building just BURNED....The gapping HOLES put in the sides of the buildings fed MASSIVE amounts of Oxygen to the fire.  If that fire had started in the building WITHOUT that level of oxygen to feed the fire it would have NEVER grown as fast as it did.   Also,  the initial impact zone was low enough on each building where eventually the weight of the upper floors would cause what Firefighters refer to as a pancake collapse.  One support fails and then the weight of the upper floors pancakes down on top of the others.

This is EXACTLY how controlled demolition works....They don't use 50 tons of TNT in a building....They use small charges tied to structural supports and then let the weight of the BUILDING do most of the work.

I've seen fires burn so hot that 24 inch steel beams were twisted like pretzels.....In Worchester in 1999 the cold storage warehouse that claimed the lifes of 6 Firefighters experienced a similar collapse....BUT it occured on the INSIDE of the structure as the steel beams supporting the floors weakened from the heat they collapsed in a classic pancake fashion.

The difference????

The trade Centers were built using CURTAIN WALL technology were the exterior walls have little if any structural value.....Worchester Cold Storage was an 100 year old masonary building....The same collapse occured in BOTH buildings, you just couldn't SEE IT in Worcester  because the heavier exterior walls remained standing.

And I can tell you from first hand experience......THERE WAS MAJOR, MAJOR, beyond your abilitly to believe WRECKAGE FOR BLOCKS at that site.  USAR teams from all over the country were sent there.  

Tower 7 collapsed because the entire WATER SUPPLY system for that area of NYC had been destroyed.....Tower 7 burned for HOURS and HOURS without a DROP of water being put on it....and even if they HAD water...What Battalion Chief in FDNY is sending HIS guys' into THAT building on THAT DAY after just losing 300+????  They wrote that building off......as they should have....If you let ANY structure burn long enough ONE THING HAPPENS....It COLLAPSES......Eventually FDNY used a FIREBOAT that the City had just told them they didn't NEED anymore to PUMP thousands of gallons of water out of the New York harbor and up the streets in 4" hose lines to supply the remaining/ operable Fire apparatus at that scene.

It amazes me how out right STUPID some people are....BUT....the UPSIDE is.......

I BUY LOT'S OF HOUSES FROM THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rookieNYC]

fdjake,
 Ty for that detailed account..I really didnt know what happened to WTC building 7,not that I ever felt it was some kind of ridiculous conspiracy..My brother in law was the first graduating class with the FDNY *after* 9/11,talk about brave..He switched over from the NYPD...I cant tell you how proud I was and still am of him..The bravest guy I know..Never mind the 4 tours he has done in Iraq and Afghanistan...He spent 4 days on the pile looking for my other brother in law who is a PA cop and was part of the first response team after the incident..A cellphone saved my brother in laws life..Him and his group of PA cops were loading into a van to head to the WTC and he forgot his cellphone in his locker and told the guys that he would jump in the next van..The van he passed up the ride with everyone didnt make it..*Everyone*..Imagine living with that..Poor guy is still a mess I think..The bumper sticker you see alot amongst firemen in NY says it all...FDNY & 9/11...All gave some..Some gave all...

I surf alot and have been an avid surfer for over 33 years.I spend alot of time in Long Beach NY and have many friends there..That community was hit so hard and so was Rockaway with the loss of NYPD,FDNY,PAPD and everyday non-military citizens...Along the boardwalk in Long Beach people were allowed to donate benches with plaques for the deceased ...I cant tell you how many *hundreds* of benches are now on that boardwalk..

[fdjake]

I can't even imagine living with that....But...It shows you what kind of guy he is.....He transferred out of NYPD and into FDNY after 911.  That's walkin the walk man.

In the Fire service FDNY is looked upon as the "Majors"  The BIG LEAGUES....It's not because THEY think that....

It's because they DO IT!!  24/7/365

Some of the best Firefighters on the planet.