Why the anger over the health care bill?

[Vader]

After the bill passed and I see all the angry tea partiers, I'm trying to figure out why so much anger. So I'm checking in to see what you guys think, since a lot of folks on here are very knowledgeable about politics. I'm NOT a democrat, liberal or whatever you guys used to think of me, lol, even though I tend to agree with fdjake and furnished at times.

I must be slow, but I'm not seeing how the health care bill is THAT bad. Trillions were already spent for stimulus spending, which started in the Bush administration most people seem to neglect to say. What if the health bill gets amended further down the line and becomes really good? It just seems to me people are resisting change because the stakes are high and they are paranoid about the economic climate.

Also, how is obama a dictator? Not seeing that, Stalin, Castro come to mind when I think of dictator, obama doesn't remind me of any of those guys.

Not seeing how EVERYTHING deemed socialist is ALL bad? I might be wrong, but I think we're the last developed country not to have government run health care. The poor folks get free health care anyway so wouldn't the health care bill help people who lost their jobs etc? I'm really curious here guys, because I see the anger but don't understand why.

[taxlienadvisor]

spot on!

[allagash]

Vader,

Don’t you get it?

I don’t want no stinking entitlement society.

I could care less if we (were) the last holdout developed country without socialized medicine.

But to cave in to their example is sheer weakness.

Sure, health care companies have had monopolies.  Just like local stone quarries do.

So focus on that…..not that entitlement BS.

Have you ever read Benjamin Franklin’s autobiography?  It takes a while to get used to the dialect that was used in the late 1700’s, but I recommend it to anyone serious about preserving the freedoms of our country.  And FO….don’t give me that BS about late 1700’s being different than today.  It’s all the same.  He or she, (in his/her most basic existence), was just the same as I am today. 

I applaud Mike, (Propertymanager in Ohio).  He’s one of few that will stand up for what is right. Yes, he accepts Section 8 checks as part of his rental payments….or however that works.  But I know deep down, he’d trash that whole scheme in a heartbeat. We all need to feed our families.

The sub-culture in the US that is living off of public assistance is HUGH and is about to get HUGHER thanks to the agenda of our community activist leader.  Whether it’s Soros, Summers, or Emanel directing agenda….I really don’t know.

It’s a cancer….don’t you see it?

The party gets richer on Air Force 1……not down on Main Street.

We sink deeper into the depths of  subservience.

Go to DC…..look at the overhead cranes, the construction there…..

Then go back home…and think long and hard about these wreckless promises of entitlement.

On a percentage basis…this agenda, (by it’s very nature), pools a greater percentage of Americans into lower class existence.

-Mike

[xpandergt]

You don't get it?

Who would appreciate taking a cutting edge world class healthcare system and turning it into a second rate rationed healthcare system vader? Why would pharmaceutical companies continue to spend billions into R&D to come up with the latest block buster drugs when the government isn't going to pay the phara companies what they are worth? That means there is no economic incentive to create the latest cancer fighting or other disease fighting drug.

Since the government won't pay doctors what they are worth under a government rationed system. There will be fewer and fewer doctors and surgeons going into practice onto of those who will be leaving out of the system due to inadequate compensation, more government regulation and an enormous patient load. This will lead to extremely long wait times "in the months to years" in order to be seen by the few doctors and surgeons that remain around. It's really basic. You can't have top quality healthcare that is rationed. It is like trying to clap with one hand. The government isn't going to pay for the best technology the medical device makers create. They will try and use what they have until it falls apart in order to save money. When it comes to quality of care, there is nothing good about this now law. That is why most of America is pissed over this vader.

[propertymanager]

Not seeing how EVERYTHING deemed socialist is ALL bad?

Yes, SOCIALISM IS BAD AND SOCIALISM NEVER WORKS!  At it's most basic, socialism is government control.  If you do some study (before it's too late), you'll find out that socialist countries want to control EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE and they always want more.  They decide when and where you can travel; they decide what food you can have (thanks to their central planning and lack of money); and they even decide whether you live or die.  Not a good little socialist - off to a re-education camp from which you never return.

You say that could never happen here - BULLSH*T!!!  I'm absolutely certain that every one of the LITERALLY hundreds of millions of people who were exterminated by the socialists/communists/marxists in the 20th centure believed that also.

Look at what's happened in the past year.  The government has taken over the banking sector, the auto industry, healthcare (1/6 of the economy), Insurance, and they're about to take over the entire student loan business.  They want to tax the air you breath (carbon dioxide) and allow ILLEGAL immigrants to flood the country.  We're probably already past the point of no peaceful return from socialism.

I must be slow, but I'm not seeing how the health care bill is THAT bad.

Obviously, that's because you haven't done your homework.  We're going to be spending TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS for a lower standard of healthcare so that we can cover millions of people who already receive healthcare.  It's INSANE!  There were things that could have been done to REALLY IMPROVE HEALTHCARE, such as tort reform and allowing insurance competition, but that doesn't serve the purpose of the socialists.  Obama, himself, has said it over and over - he's lowering the standard of care.  He said, 'if you go to the emergency room, you will now be getting one test instead of five'.  That's fine, if you don't need five tests to determine what's wrong with you.  If you needed that second, third, fourth, or fifth test  to be properly diagnosed - YOU'RE OUT OF LUCK!  Likewise, he said that maybe older patients should be given a pain killer and sent home instead of being given expensive treatment that might save their life!  Can't waste money on people that are old, you know.

I might be wrong, but I think we're the last developed country not to have government run health care.

And we don't need it now!  In fact, healthcare is NOT a right.  If a person wants to receive healthcare, they should have to pay for it.  Why should I be forced by the government to pay for healthcare, food, and housing for TENS OF MILLIONS OF LAZY PEOPLE?

Also, how is obama a dictator? Not seeing that, Stalin, Castro come to mind when I think of dictator, obama doesn't remind me of any of those guys.

Obama is not a dictator YET!  Again, you need to put forth some effort to study history!  Dictators don't suddenly appear.  It's a process and takes some time.  Before a person can become a dictator, they must consolidate power.  Obama is doing that now.  Then, he'll have to (try to) take away our guns.  In Nazi Germany, that started with gun registration.  After they were registered, then the guns were confiscated, starting with Jews that owned guns.  As far as I'm concerned, that is the tipping point that will start the war!

[taxlienadvisor]

dear Vader,

I dont think they like us, or our opinions very much...do you get the same impression.

you will probably not find much love on this particular forum.

[taxlienadvisor]

every symptom, that a billion dollar blockbuster drug can cure...can also be cured through alternative medicine healing...at a fraction of the cost that is so small I dont know if the fraction even exists

[Vader]

Health care not an entitlement = Anger, makes perfect sense.

Property manager, I totally get your point about there being a better way. The bill does seem rushed and the reasons seem more political than actually trying to help main street. The dems wanted to push it through to prove a point and validate the presidency and the republicans want power back so are undermining the president. That seemed like a NO WIN situation to me.

I don't see where the gov took over the banking sector, the ones that pay back the money can do whatever they want. Same with the auto. If the gov didn't let the economy crash, those semi takeovers were the quick and dirty way to prop it up. Whether that was right or not, we all will see soon. The banks and wall street have been free to do whatever they wanted and now the whole country is in trouble! Regaining some balance is always going to look like "socialism" at first. If these semi takeovers are permanent then we might have big problems. They don't seem permanent to me, the ones who pay back the money are business as usual. If you pay an employee a 100 million dollar bonus and lay off 10,000 people a month later, you are BEGGING for regulation!

xpandergt, great point about R&D, never knew that. You're right there, but the current system is going to kill us financially anyway, how much more profit do the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies need? Some countries with socialized medicine have great technology, not sure if they copied ours or developed alot on their own. I'll have to check into it.

Keep them coming guys, I'm getting it.

[Hoosier4life2005]

every symptom, that a billion dollar blockbuster drug can cure...can also be cured through alternative medicine healing...at a fraction of the cost that is so small I dont know if the fraction even exists

If thats the case, then you can use "alternative medicine healing" for yourself, and save alot of money. (Im in nursing school, and we've been studing CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medications) alot, and yes, in some cases, you can be corect)

However.. 


But the Government shouldnt make people use CAM if they dont want too.

People need to buy their own @&#*@

[xpandergt]

vader "how much more profit do the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies need? "

Are you a real investor vader? Because I don't know anyone who is an investor and doesn't want to make a profit. You say how much more profit do the pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies need to make? Look at the profit margins of those industries, they don't make a lot of profit. Revenue and profit are two different things. Furthermore, who is it for anyone to dictate or even question how much a company should make in profit as long as those companies are doing it legally vader? I love capitalism, and I don't begrudge anyone making money. That is why I am an investor to begin with. I would never ever ever ever ever ever claim that a person should limit their earning potential. That goes for companies small and large. I am a capitalist to the core. Companies should be able to make as much as they want selling their products in the market place vader. What if the government told you that they will limit the amount of houses you can buy in order to minimize your profit potential, would you find that acceptable vader?

[ajackson71]

I'm with Vader. I don't understand it either. What's with throwing bricks at democrat offices?

[furnishedowner]

Vader,
Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent post.

xpandergt,
About your "cutting edge world class health care system"...It is cutting edge ONLY for a segment of the population.  Those that CAN AFFORD health insurance and live near big cities with big city hospitals.  Yes, there you get first class cutting edge technology and care.

BUT WE ARE 28th IN THE WORLD ON INFANT DEATHS!  How's that for cutting edge?

Little baby, you have a better chance of reaching your first birthday if you choose to be born in Croatia, not the United States of America.

We are having an epidemic of pre-mature labor and preemie infants.

My sister's nephew's wife, Hope, aged 40, just lost her first baby, born prematurely.  
Why?  Because Hope and her husband were amongst the working poor and didn't have health insurance from their jobs.  

So she didn't get treated properly for her chronic re-occurring bladder infection.  Bladder infections cause pre-term labor!

They held their little daughter, about 1 pound in weight, for the 10 minutes it took her to die.  In a California County Hospital.  Where doctors said that baby was below the line where she could survive.  Can you imagine how devastating it would have been to be in that hospital room with that couple and their baby for those 10 minutes?  

So don't even go on and on about your "cutting edge" ELITIST care.

All Hope had needed was antibiotics and careful monitoring during her pregnancy.  Which she couldn't get under our cutting edge health care.

The longevity rate also is a measure of the adequacy of health care.  Well, how long are we living?  We're not cutting edge there, either.  Also our infection rates for different diseases is way too high.  Compared to the rest of the industrialized countries.

By the way, the Pharmacy Companies CAME OUT IN FAVOR of the health care bill.  Why?  Because a HIGH PROPORTION OF PRESCRIPTIONS NEVER GET FILLED!  People can't afford to!

Pharmaceutical Company profits will go UP and they WILL have money for R & D if they can count on prescription profits.

The AMA came out in FAVOR of the bill.  People are getting Emergency Room treatment in lieu of doctors' office visits.  Doctors' office visit numbers are going to go way up.

Many of you have been raging about "big government", "entitlements", the "socialization" of our country.

Sorry, folks.  I've spent all my rage on the health care setup that allowed for the death of that little one-pound baby girl.  Who might not have died in those 27 other countries.  Where her Mama would have gotten, not cutting edge, just simply adequate pre-natal care.

Oh, by the way, we really DO have cutting edge surgical and trauma skills in those big city hospitals.  The surgeons and trauma doctors are FIRST IN THE WORLD...they have the very most experience in the world in treating...

gun-shot victims.

Furnishedowner    

[Vader]

vader "how much more profit do the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies need? "

Are you a real investor vader? Because I don't know anyone who is an investor and doesn't want to make a profit. You say how much more profit do the pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies need to make? Look at the profit margins of those industries, they don't make a lot of profit. Revenue and profit are two different things. Furthermore, who is it for anyone to dictate or even question how much a company should make in profit as long as those companies are doing it legally vader? I love capitalism, and I don't begrudge anyone making money. That is why I am an investor to begin with. I would never ever ever ever ever ever claim that a person should limit their earning potential. That goes for companies small and large. I am a capitalist to the core. Companies should be able to make as much as they want selling their products in the market place vader. What if the government told you that they will limit the amount of houses you can buy in order to minimize your profit potential, would you find that acceptable vader?

I was wrong, I thought they made a lot more than they did. Even the big ones barely reach 1 billion a year http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/insurance-co-profits-good-but-not-breaking-records/. My bad, I thought they were hogging the money when the premiums go up. Where do the extra premiums go, if not the insurance companies??? Does anyone know?

As far was allowing anyone to make a profit legally, that's a gray area to me. Look at the oil industry, incredible amount of gouging there and ALL legal. My gripe as far as that is that when one group profits excessively and it causes a lot of suffering to others for products that are a necessity(like oil and health) then something needs to be done about that, even if the gouging is legal. But this is off topic.

[Bluemoon06]

My sister's nephew's wife, Hope, aged 40, just lost her first baby, born prematurely.  
Why?  Because Hope and her husband were amongst the working poor and didn't have health insurance from their jobs.  

My son was born in Virginia.  My insurance company paid $40,000 for him to be born.  My wife went into premature labor and my insurance kicked in with an infusion pump to keep her medicated, a home monitoring machine and a nurse to come by our house to check on her.  If I was in Texas she would have been given a handful of pills. 

Why do the babies in Virginia deserve so much better care than the babies in Texas?  Insurance is wonderful but you have to have the right kind.  The problem with this law is that expect that Virginia will get the crappy Texas plan.

[Bluemoon06]

I was wrong, I thought they made a lot more than they did. Even the big ones barely reach 1 billion a year http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/insurance-co-profits-good-but-not-breaking-records/. My bad, I thought they were hogging the money when the premiums go up. Where do the extra premiums go, if not the insurance companies??? Does anyone know?

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they said that health insurance companies profit is about what 2 days worth of medical care that they provide costs.