It's a New Record! FORTY MILLION AMERICANS ON FOOD STAMPS

[propertymanager]

Makes you proud to be an American to know that we're paying for FORTY MILLION LAZY DEADBEATS to eat for free!  What's even better is that they think so little of the food we give them, they almost always leave an entire kitchen full when they move. 

Here's the article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6465E220100507

[christopher w]

Funny your against food stamps. But your more than happy to take Section 8 money for rent....

If you owned a grocery store would you feel differently about food stamps... me thinks so!

[John_in_NC]

There is a moral premise here that I think Mike is referencing. The real question is should a taxpayer be forced by gunpoint to pay for the needs of a non-taxpayer? And make no mistake, it is at  the force of gunpoint. Don't pay your taxes, you will have a trial and lose. A warrant issued. Resist arrest or protect yourself from intruders on your property, you will have a gun in your face. When you boil government down to it's most purest form, it's give a bunch of guns to enforcers to protect the laws created.

So, is it moral to be forced at gunpoint to help those in need (or lazy??)?

Would you give more to charity if these government programs didn't exist?

[propertymanager]

If you owned a grocery store would you feel differently about food stamps... me thinks so!

If I owned a grocery store, I would NOT feel differently about food stamps.  Furthermore, it's absolutely consistent for a grocery store owner to be against the government confiscating his money in taxes to provide handouts (food stamps) to the lazy, while at the same time accepting food stamps as payment for food.   It isn't that hard to understand that you have to work within the system the government that currently exists while working to change that system.

[propertymanager]

So, is it moral to be forced at gunpoint to help those in need (or lazy??)?

I wouldn't mind helping those truly in need, but the VAST MAJORITY of people receiving handouts are not needy - they are just lazy!  Furthermore, the proper place for charity is with the church and other charities, not with the government.  Let's get the government out of our lives!  Let's allow people to make their own decisions and then live with the consequences of those decisions.

[John_in_NC]

So, is it moral to be forced at gunpoint to help those in need (or lazy??)?

I wouldn't mind helping those truly in need, but the VAST MAJORITY of people receiving handouts are not needy - they are just lazy!  Furthermore, the proper place for charity is with the church and other charities, not with the government.  Let's get the government out of our lives!  Let's allow people to make their own decisions and then live with the consequences of those decisions.

You cant have one or the other Mike. Either you believe it is ok to take by force or not. It's no different than me going to the local auto dealership and taking a car from the owner at gunpoint, and giving it to somebody else that I determined needed it more.

Now it's another story if you choose to give, but being forced? So you can't say, I wouldn't mind helping SOME, but it's the OTHER that tick me off. Who decides who the some or other is?

Poverty was declining until the 1970s, when the effects of all the entitlement programs starting to really kick in. It's a real shame when you think about what this country could have been had we stuck to the same values that made us great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

[propertymanager]

Now it's another story if you choose to give, but being forced? So you can't say, I wouldn't mind helping SOME, but it's the OTHER that tick me off. Who decides who the some or other is?

You're absolutely right John!  That's the problem in a nutshell.  The morons in the government can't possibly decide who legitimately needs help (due to REAL incapacity) and the vast majority that are simply lazy.  Since that is true, then I would come down on the side of NO-ONE getting entitlements.  Thanks for helping clarify that for me!!!

It's a real shame when you think about what this country could have been had we stuck to the same values that made us great

.

Amen!

Furthermore, I would submit that there is ABSOLUTELY NO POVERTY in the United States today!  NONE!  What we have in the USA are a bunch of lazy deadbeats who are given free housing, free food, free medical care, and even free cell phones!  THAT IS NOT POVERTY!

[christopher w]

I am going to agree with PM on this one. The current welfare system has changed over the years from the way it used to be. Before you did not have to do anything other than be a woman with children to receive welfare. It was nearly impossible for a man to get welfare, but women with children were almost automatic.

Now to get welfare you have to go down and apply at which point they put you in touch with your state's job bank. You have to work a job for a minimum number of days per month to get your actual welfare check. I guess they are trying to force people back into the workforce. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are to lazy to want to do that so they get a section 8 rental and live on foodstamps. They sell the foodstamps for pennies on the dollar to make extra cash.

I don't know if I would say there is zero poverty but I will say there is a lot more laziness than poverty.

[Bluemoon06]

Furthermore, I would submit that there is ABSOLUTELY NO POVERTY in the United States today!  NONE!  What we have in the USA are a bunch of lazy deadbeats who are given free housing, free food, free medical care, and even free cell phones!  THAT IS NOT POVERTY!

I agree that statistically the poverty in the USA is none existent.  I base this on the fact that I met this guy that immigrated from one of the countries in sub Saharan Africa.  He said he had to leave his country and he picked the USA because in the USA even the poor people are fat.

Here most of the poor people live in really nice conditions.  There is virtually no poverty here.  Compare our poor to Uganda’s poor.

[wildwoman]

Interesting how this comment comes from someone taking as fact information from a corporation whose income and credibility over the years has been proven suspect, at best.  Reading a teleprompter of half a statistic doesn't tell the rest of the story:

1. Military families are now making up to 2% of those on food stamps because vendors who supply the military commissaries pricing structure means they pay off-base prices, and on-based prices are at times higher than shopping off-base.

2. Part of that 'Forty Million Americans' includes senior citizens living on fixed incomes, but who must also pay the same prices as everyone else for rising food costs.

3. Finally, part of that same 'Forty Million Americans' are part of that 10%+ unemployed whose jobs have been outsourced and worked in industries that closed up shop never to return.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but before we start calling people 'deadbeats' and worse let's use a bit of common sense.

Maybe We Americans can give the same empathy reserved for saving the polar bears for those who have been reduced to using food stamps through no fault of their own.

When was the last time your time was spent volunteering at the local food bank or employment center to give something back to the community?  It's easy to point fingers and look down your nose at those you believe are 'less deserving', but it takes character to step up and be part of the solution.

My 2 cents.

[Bluemoon06]

Interesting how this comment comes from someone taking as fact information from a corporation whose income and credibility over the years has been proven suspect, at best.  Reading a teleprompter of half a statistic doesn't tell the rest of the story:

1. Military families are now making up to 2% of those on food stamps because vendors who supply the military commissaries pricing structure means they pay off-base prices, and on-based prices are at times higher than shopping off-base.

2. Part of that 'Forty Million Americans' includes senior citizens living on fixed incomes, but who must also pay the same prices as everyone else for rising food costs.

3. Finally, part of that same 'Forty Million Americans' are part of that 10%+ unemployed whose jobs have been outsourced and worked in industries that closed up shop never to return.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but before we start calling people 'deadbeats' and worse let's use a bit of common sense.

Maybe We Americans can give the same empathy reserved for saving the polar bears for those who have been reduced to using food stamps through no fault of their own.

When was the last time your time was spent volunteering at the local food bank or employment center to give something back to the community?  It's easy to point fingers and look down your nose at those you believe are 'less deserving', but it takes character to step up and be part of the solution.

My 2 cents.

That is a very good comment.  This is evidence that all these programs were developed for good reasons.  They are created to help people that need help.  But in Propertymanager’s defense there is always a sheep in wolf’s clothing that will find a way to mingle with the heard to take advantage of the situation.  That is who I and I believe he takes objection to.  I have no problem with the needy getting food stamps, but if we are to being down the spending that the government does, we need to stop spending on the lazy and greedy and only provide these benefits to the truly needy.  If we willow down all these programs to the people that really need it we should be able to spend less, thereby tax less  which will allow us to reduce the deficet and eventually the debt.

[propertymanager]

Wildwoman,

Welcome to the forum!  However, on this topic, I think that you are living in the past.  I agree with you that it's a shame that seniors can't afford to live on a fixed income.  I think it's a shame that any of our military personnel would be paid little enough to be eligible for food stamps.  However, the military makes up only a miniscule part of the 40 million deadbeats in the USA!  We literally have tens of millions who are simply too lazy to work!  The "entitled" are part of the problem in this country and they will pay a HUGE price (many of them with their lives) for being so unprepared.  The socialists in this country have spent decades laying the foundation for the destruction of our way of life.  They have (intentionally) spent the country into oblivion.  They have intentionally promised entitlements that they couldn't possibly pay for.   A complete collapse of the economy and our society is imminent (within the next couple of years) because of the looting of our country by the "elite" (international bankers, the Fed, the socialists, etc) and because of the entitlements.

Part of that 'Forty Million Americans' includes senior citizens living on fixed incomes, but who must also pay the same prices as everyone else for rising food costs.

Sorry, a lot of these seniors were foolish enough to believe that the socialists in the government were going to take care of them and that social security was going to be there for them.  Guess what - THE GOVERNMENT LIED.  Their retirement is hereby CANCELLED!

Finally, part of that same 'Forty Million Americans' are part of that 10%+ unemployed whose jobs have been outsourced and worked in industries that closed up shop never to return.

Yep, our wonderful government passed minimum wage laws; ridiculous environmental regulation and other regulation; and gave unions power they should never have had.  All those things have DESTROYED our competitiveness in the USA and the jobs are GONE FOREVER!  These people have got to get up off their butts; dust themselves off, and become productive! 

The world is in a LOT of trouble and having an excuse for being on government handouts is simply not going to cut it.  Furthermore, it is not my responsiblity to pay for all the slackers.  Sink or swim!

When was the last time your time was spent volunteering at the local food bank or employment center to give something back to the community?  It's easy to point fingers and look down your nose at those you believe are 'less deserving', but it takes character to step up and be part of the solution.

 

I NEVER volunteer at the local food bank!  I am NOT giving handouts to the lazy; the druggies; and the unproductive.  I do volunteer almost literally every day.  I am currently working on collecting signatures to put a constitutional amendment on the November ballot in Ohio to STOP OBAMACARE!  I volunteer on a regular basis on 2nd Amendment Issues.  I am fighting our city on a variety of issues and will be leading a political jihad against a local tax increase.  I have frequently helped new real estate investors get started.  I'm happy to help people learn to grow their own food or help them to put together a resume - BUT I WILL NOT GIVE THEM FOOD!

[John_in_NC]

The basic argument here is simple, it is a moral one.

Is it right to take by force from one and give to the other??

I know plenty of seniors living very well into retirement. They planned and were smart about it. Should their standard be reduced by force to pay for an increase standard for another senior with less personal responsibility? Well it is. Is this right?

Should everyone have an equal in retirement? Should everyone be equal regardless of ability or responsibility?

The answer is obvious and could be fixed with better financial education, in both the public and private schools and a better respect for personal property rights and free markets.

[brockovich]

Exactly, I am supposed to feel sorry for Seniors that didn't save a dime their entire life and wonder why they can't survive on SS alone? It is there as a supplement for retirement, not a sole source of income. That is where so many got it wrong.

[jfpen]

Exactly, I am supposed to feel sorry for Seniors that didn't save a dime their entire life and wonder why they can't survive on SS alone? It is there as a supplement for retirement, not a sole source of income. That is where so many got it wrong.

I saw my folks struggle on SS and minimal retirement investments. In the private sector, I've heard horror stories of others that had pensions taken from them during the mergers and acquisitions of their companies. I even feel bad for my firefighter friends whose pensions are in jeopardy. Some of them work part-time jobs and if I'm not mistaken can only collect 1/3rd of the SS benefit from their second job because of their primary job.
I don't consider SS a factor in retirement planning. Nor do I look at the statement that comes in the mail. If SS is there when I retire, great! If not, then so be it. Depending solely the government for your retirement income is risky. Public sentiment for governmental spending is at an all time low and getting worse. I think planning on being self-reliant is wise in these times. 

JP