USA facing the same problems as Greece ???

[rookieNYC]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/100005657/us-faces-same-problems-as-greece-says-bank-of-england/


Some "ammo" for Mikes argument...

[allagash]

little more ammo....in video format:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nassim-taleb-we-are-going-have-some-point-failed-auction

-Mike

[propertymanager]

In my opinion, we're already having failed auctions!  The FED is buying a large part of the debt with money created out of thin air - i.e. monetizing the debt.

However, if you think about it, we probably won't have the crash I'm always talking about until people like Rookie finally believe that I'm right.  As long as the Wall Streeters go along with the Fed's big charade, the sheeple in the country probably will too.  That delay (probably another 1 1/2 to 2 years before Wall Street realizes we're broke) will serve to greatly increase the severity of the collapse and resulting civil unrest when it finally occurs.

The big question in my mind is whether the Fed and Treasury are just desperate/inept, or whether they are actively conspiring with the socialists to intentionally crash the economy.  Glenn Beck presented a VERY GOOD argument today that the socialists surrounding the President REALLY BELIEVE in this global warming nonsense and are trying to collapse the "rich" countries of the world to save the world from Global Warming.  To support his argument, he played video of speeches by several of the president's closest advisors where they said as much.  Up to this point, I have believed that the socialists have been using the global warming scam as part of the Cloward and Piven strategy to intentionally collapse the country for the purpose of instituting a socialist/communist/marxist government.  I'll have to do some more research.  If Glenn is right and the socialists really believe that global warming is destroying the planet, then things will get VERY DANGEROUS!  After all, the ultimate solution to global warming is to get rid of a few billion people!

What is crystal clear to me is that no-one in the government could possibly be so incompetent that they think spending TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS on stimulus, and especially creating TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of new entitlements, could possibly solve a debt problem.  I think it's hilarious that Obama is lecturing Europe that they must cut spending on run-away entitlements while we're spending like there's no tomorrow.  Socialism has destroyed Greece and much of Europe and we're following their lead - UNBELIEVABLE (unless destroying the economy IS the plan).

[christopher w]

If you read the article closely you will see that one of the things they say is that the Greek situation could havd been mostly avoided if the would have addressed the situation months ago instead of avoiding it. The US did this with the bank bailouts. If not for the TARP bailout the US would have looked like Greece.

[propertymanager]

Unfortunately, the tarp bailout only intensified our debt crisis.  Now, Greece has a debt crisis and so do we.  We're just not willing to face ours yet.

[phlemboy]

I thought that about half of tarp has been repaid as of December 2009. Also, isn't Obama imposing a new tax on the banks to recoup any TARP that doesn't repaid? 

[propertymanager]

I thought that about half of tarp has been repaid as of December 2009.

If you consider "repaid" to be paid with taxpayer money - then you're right!

Remember this quote from the recent article I posted about GM paying back their bailout money with taxpayer dollars?  

...when Mr. Whitacre says GM has paid back the bailout money in full, he means not the entire $49.5 billion--the loan and the equity. In fact, he avoids all mention of that figure in his column. He means only the $6.7 billion loan amount.

But wait! Even that's not the full story given that GM, which has not yet broken even, much less turned a profit, can't pay even this puny amount from its own earnings.

As it turns out, the Obama administration put $13.4 billion of the aid money as "working capital" in an escrow account when the company was in bankruptcy. The company is using this escrow money--government money--to pay back the government loan.

And the big banks, how are they making money with which to pay back their bailout money?  The Fed is printing money out of thin air (at taxpayer expense) and giving it to the banks at near ZERO INTEREST!  The banks then LOAN that money to the Treasury (the taxpayer) at THREE PERCENT INTEREST!  Could you make a profit if the taxpayer was LITERALLY GIVING YOU MONEY!  It's all a ponzi scheme!

Also, isn't Obama imposing a new tax on the banks to recoup any TARP that doesn't repaid?

Yes, the Socialist in Chief loves to impose new taxes (or is he giving the middle class a tax break)!  However, that tax isn't being paid by the banks - it's being paid by the TAXPAYER!  First of all, as I've already described, the banks are currently making their money because they are being given FREE TAXPAYER MONEY!  So, the tax is really being paid by money taken from the taxpayer.  Even if this eventually stops, businesses don't pay taxes!  Yes, businesses write the checks to the IRS, but they receive the money to write those checks from their customers.  If their taxes increase - YOUR TAXES INCREASE!  The same is true for the ridiculous new proposed tax on oil companies.  Raise the tax on oil companies and you'll pay more at the gas pump.

Consider the Cap and Tax plan the socialists rolled out a couple of days ago.  Osama Obama said during his campaign that under his Cap and Tax plan 'electricity prices would NECESSARILY SKYROCKET'.  Who's going to pay for that?  YOU ARE!!!  You're not only going to pay more for your electric usage, you're going to pay more for every product that uses electricity in it's manufacture or storage (such as refrigeration).  

[phlemboy]

At some ppint the banks become profitable on their own. There's not an endless stream of taxpayer money still flowing to the banks.. No matter how you slice it, money is still getting back into the govt. hands.. Wherer does that money go?

[propertymanager]

There's not an endless stream of taxpayer money still flowing to the banks..

There is so far.  Moreover, Fannie and Freddie have been given blank checks and are still losing huge amounts of money!

No matter how you slice it, money is still getting back into the govt. hands..

Yes - TAXPAYER MONEY!

Wherer does that money go?

AT LEAST 50 Billion dollars is going to bail out Greece.  How much more will be sent to the rest of Europe for their bailouts?  Who will bailout the USA?

[phlemboy]

Fannie and Freddie have always been a govt. program. The only problem is that they're not profitable. Nobody said a word when they were making money hand over fist and a lot of money was being funnelled back into the politians personal and political pockets both sides had their hand in the cookie jar. But as far as BAC, Citigroup, JP Morgan, etc... Those banks are/ will be profitable without govt. money. BAC repaid $45B, Citigroup has shares to sell for the govt.. The big banks are giving the taxpayer money back.. It just seems like people are acting like the TARP is gone and will never be paid back.. It IS being paid back. What the govt. does with it is another story altogether.. Even the money going to GREECE is a loan.. Nobody likes bailouts but if we're going to enjoy the benefits of a globally connected economy when things are good, we have to pitch in when things are not.. It can't be a one way street. I'm not saying that banks, govts. or anyone else who recieve bailouts should be given a free pass, but we're either globally connected or we're not.. 

[christopher w]

PM,

You obviously don't understand how the banking system works if you think the bank bailout was pointless.

[sellnbama]

  Was'nt the Tarp sold to the taxpayer under the promise it would be paid back to the taxpayer,the debt (not the govt)and possibly make money?Now it may be getting paid back but this administration is using it as "leftover tarp funds".Seems like I remember some great leader saying the govt does'nt have one cent, until it takes it from someone else first.I'm not saying Tarp was a waste,just recalling the lies and misdirection.

[propertymanager]

You obviously don't understand how the banking system works if you think the bank bailout was pointless.

Actually, I have a very good understanding of how the banking system works.  I don't think the bank bailout was "pointless", I think it was VERY DESTRUCTIVE!  It not only told these banks that they can't fail and therefore encourages them to make wreckless "investments" in the future, it also cost the taxpayer TRILLIONS of DOLLARS that we'll NEVER get back.   Have/will the banks pay back the bailout money - YES!  They've been getting FREE TAXPAYER MONEY - NOT A LOAN - FREE MONEY!  The Fed is loaning the banks money at ZERO PERCENT and the banks are loaning that money back to the Treasury (taxpayer) at 3%!!!  Don't you understand what that means?  The TAXPAYER IS GIVING THE BANKS MONEY!

If I got the same deal, I could pay off all my rentals TODAY!  It's nothing but a scam!  It's a transfer of wealth from the middle class to the extremely rich bankers!  You've been had!

[Bluemoon06]

The problem with the banks is that they are inflated.  The official economy is way bigger than the real economy actually is.  When they decoupled the mortgages from the underlying real estate they allowed a false economy to grow with no bearing to real life.    When banks were created you would want to buy a house for $100,000.  The banker would make you put down $20,000 and the bank would loan you $80,000 secured by the property.  When you gave the seller his $100,000 you took the house and a mortgage for $80,000.  If you didn’t pay the bank took the house back that they owed $80,000 on that was worth $100,000.  They would sell the house for $85,000.  The second seller got a deal the bank didn’t lose anything the only person that comes out behind is the guy that stopped paying his note so there is no financial meltdown.

What happens now is in order to get more money out of this industry they have separated the financing of the house from the real estate.  They package the payments of these mortgages into securities that can’t be matched back up with the property.  That means that if you stop paying of the mortgage it just lessons the returns of the security.  If they repossess the house and sell it, that has no bearing on the security. 

It is really a ponzi scheme.  We have PMI which in theory would make the mortgage companies whole once everybody started to default on their loans.  If that had happened we would have had an insurance crises instead of a financial crisis.  Nothing works.  The securities market doesn’t work, PMI doesn’t work, the foreclosure market doesn’t work.  What we need is a back to basics push not TARP.

The TARP does nothing to fix the structural problem of how to make these securities perform better.  TARP just puts more money into the system so that they can continue business as usual.

[phlemboy]

Mortgages were bought and sold all the time.. Fannie and Freddie were the buyers for the most part. They used to have very strict guidelines the brokers needed to follow if they wanted Fannie and Freddie to buy them. When Fannie and Freddie got tangled in their own little scandal and were unable to buy these mortgages, that opened the door for a new buyer... Wall St. Wall St. didn't impose the same strict regulation that Fan/Fred did. Little regulation, lowered standards, exotic loan types, Wall St.'s ability to package and sell them as CDO's and the ratings agengy's willingness to make subgrade securities look like A+ securities was the downfall.. It was because everyone thought home prices would keep rising and people would not walk away from their McManinsions... There were so many mistakes on so many levels.. But the govt. is focusing their efforts on the big bad evil banks.. Its easier for the american people to get behind that concept.. Create a class warfair and get elected....Rinse.. Repeat..