Wow what a great speech!

[John_in_NC]

I still can't belive this guy isn't our president

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=900

[Hoosier4life2005]

Ditto...

Ron Paul speaks the truth again!

[John_in_NC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1RxKW-P5V8


Ayn rand for VP!

[Bluemoon06]

The problem with Ron Paul is he is a libertarian.  Libertarians have the same problem that the tea party movement has.  It is against instead of for.  That means it doesn’t do anything but stops everything.  It is like being in a marriage with a wife that decides she is not going to have sex anymore but expects you to stay with her.  If we had a libertarian government people would have to vote them out as soon as they realized how good an idea it is to have street lights that work and police that come when you dial  911 and that 911 actually works.  By definition Libertatarians can't govern. 

[Hoosier4life2005]

The problem with Ron Paul is he is a libertarian.  Libertarians have the same problem that the tea party movement has.  It is against instead of for.  That means it doesn’t do anything but stops everything.  It is like being in a marriage with a wife that decides she is not going to have sex anymore but expects you to stay with her.  If we had a libertarian government people would have to vote them out as soon as they realized how good an idea it is to have street lights that work and police that come when you dial  911 and that 911 actually works.  By definition Libertatarians can't govern. 

Wrong IMO.  Libertarians (like me) want the Government to ONLY do things that help protect life/liberty/right to own property.  Everything else = private sector can do a good job of doing it.  Why cant the private sector take care of street lights?   

Therefor, we need cops because that protects people from violating others peoples rights to Life and Liberty (If somebody breaks into my home, thats violating my rights.  There job is to protect rights)

But yes, welfare/world police millitary/income tax/social secrity/all entitlements/oppresive social issues (gay marriage)/drug war/to name a few, should all be abolished.  Abortion is a violation of life (a thing that Governments job is to protect), which is why IMO the Government should outlaw Abortion (even though it steps in the privavcy of the woman.  Privacy of a woman < Life.

[John_in_NC]

Bluemoon,

If you want to find a country without working streetlights or police when you dial 911, you need to find a country that has long been run by the state. Cuba, or North Korea comes to mind. In my area at least, private companies have a heavy hand in these, and are paid for by consumption based tax(sales tax, property tax) and not taken by force, or the threat of, unlike the federal and state income tax. Of course this area gets gray when you talk about basic necessities of life being taxed.

I am guessing from your statement, that you suggest no tax will be collected to pay for constitutionally defined government responsibilities such as these under a Libertarian government. To that I'd say you don't understand what a Libertarian is. I would suggest reading the platform section over at www.lp.org

Currently to run the US constitutionally defined roles of government only costs around 67 Billion a year.  
Article one section 8 gives congress the power to levy such taxes through tariffs(historic terminology) Today these are called corporate taxes which we will all pay in the form of higher priced goods. A necessary evil that Libertarians acknowledge.  


"By definition Libertarians can't govern" ?? By definition libertarians govern under the supreme law of the land, that being the constitution.

[Bluemoon06]

The reason libertarians can’t govern is that they only want the government to spend the money on what “YOU” want to spend the money on and everything else is deemed “not in the constitution.”  The Constitution is a framework it is the fundamental principles it is not the law.  You then take that framework and develop laws based on it.  You still have to govern your country…all of your country. 

The President of the United Tea Party States Sara Palin said when she came here to Texas that she liked Texas because Texans are just like Alaskans.  But you have to govern people who are not just like you.  And if the answer is you don’t get any…you don’t get to govern.

Rand Paul found out how much trouble you get in when you follow a half thought out common sense solution like libertarianism.  It doesn’t work unless everybody is just like you.  Having a libertarian in office is just like having Jesse Jackson in office.  Your views don’t allow you to govern all the people.

[tatertot]

And so, Blue Moon, your insistence that Libertarians can't govern is based upon the observation of how many Libertarians in positions of political power?

Or did you just make that  up, as in: I think it and thus it is true?

[Bluemoon06]

To paraphrase your statement, because I think it is true it is true.  As you probably have realized by now I am really into why things work.  If you look at why people that are successful governing are successful you will find that the key is people.  If you help people you become successful.  That generally takes bold leadership.  Look at every person in history that is a successful governor and you will see that they have helped people.  Libertarians believe that instead of doing things they should get out of the way.  Have you ever seen someone being successful by getting out of the way?  It doesn’t work.  You won’t help people therefore you won’t last long.

From the Libertarian website it says that Libertarians strongly oppose any government interfering in their personal, family and business decisions.  Essentially, we believe all Americans should be free to live their lives and pursue their interests as they see fit.   

The definition of anarchy from Webster is a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority.  These 2 are the same Libertarian and Anarchists.

A great example of a country that exists today that is a Libertarian/anarchist form of government is Somalia.  It is a country in which the government stays out of the way and individuals are free to do as they see fit.  That is why piracy is based there and when the pirates are caught there is no effective infrastructure to deal with it.  Despite vast economic potential the lawlessness has caused the US state department to issue travel warnings requesting that Americans not travel there.

[brockovich]

It could be argued, and rather effectively, that liberals/statists obviously cannot govern either.

[Bluemoon06]

It could be argued, and rather effectively, that liberals/statists obviously cannot govern either.

No you really can't argue that effectively at all.  The definition of liberal and conservative change so much over time it is hard to say a governor was a liberal.  But there have been great governor following both of those philosophies.  Their bent is to govern.  It also depends on what your area of concern is.  For example are they great in the area of fiscal, civil rights, military.   Libertarians/anarchists bent is to not govern.

That means that they won’t leave a legacy.  They will be remembered by history as a disaster.

[John_in_NC]

Libertarians are anarchists? The constitution is not law?

There is one limit I have on this forum.......arguing. It solves nothing and wastes time.

Thanks for your comments Bluemoon, they helped me in a few unusual ways.

[propertymanager]

Libertarians certainly could govern.  They would just govern in a much smaller and more focused way.  They would govern in areas mandated in the constitution and leave everything else for the states (as is specifically required by the 10th Amendment).   That is EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED!  The problem is that we've got a large percentage of the population that wants the government to be their nanny!  These losers expect the government to take care of their every need - from cradle to grave - and they're too stupid to know that this cradle to grave nanny has bankrupted the country.  We will not get a libertarian government without a collapse of the system that we currently have.  However, a collapse is directly ahead.  When you hear people talking about a light at the end of the tunnel, they're right.  That light is the headlight of the runaway train of overspending which is soon to run right over us!

As for police and street lights - THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has no reason to be involved in either!  These are issues for state and local government.  Obama's job is NOT to keep your street lights on, nor is it Obama's job to ensure that the police respond to your 911 call.  The federal government should BUTT OUT!

[Bluemoon06]

The constitution is not law?

The laws are things like can't drive faster than 55 miles an hour, or you can't drink before the age of 15 years old.  The constitution is a framework or guide you use to construct those laws.  That is why it is called a constitution.

[Bluemoon06]

Libertarians certainly could govern...We will not get a libertarian government without a collapse of the system that we currently have. 

The problem is that once the system collapses, the person that is going to be looked for to solve this crisis is not going to be a person that is going to say.  “Look there is blood in the street” the way to fix it is to elect me and I will let you bleed.  That would be the Libertarian.  The person that will be elected will be a person that says I will spend more and more money on you.