Replacing water heater - go tankless?

[Innes177]

I believe my 75 gal gas water heater is dieing at my 4/1 apartment building.  Assuming true, I am considering changing to a tankless.  Has anyone done this or have advice?
The building has one meter which I cover and the heater is located in the locked area of the basement.  All the units have low flow shower heads. Reading other posts there seemed to be at least two issues I wasnt sure about - could the tank less use the same ventilation system as the current? Could the tankless require larger gas lines?
I understand the cost differences and that is not a huge concern.  I am meeting my plumber tomorrow so and advice would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ben

[jmd_forest]

Could the tank less use the same ventilation system as the current: Maybe
Could the tankless require larger gas lines:Maybe

Unfortunately, you have not provided enough information to provide a detailed response.  There are several factors involved in answering the questions you propose: Type/size of current exhaust and gas line, length of run for exhaust/gas, type of gas meter, available gas pressure and probably several I have not thought of.

Since you are currently paying for the hot water, I understand your desire to reduce costs by installing the on demand heater. However, another consideration you may need to deal with is the capacity/flow of the on demand heater as well as the reliability of the unit. My experience with on demand units is that they are "touchy" and need more regular maintenance (air filter, water filter, flow detector) than the typical tank type unit

[Sexxxy_Beast]

It's very easy if you have a gas water heater to switch to a tank less gas system.  Especially if you do it yourself.  Check the diameter of the pipes of your old system vs a tank less system and see if you can get a system that's got enough BTU's for your application without upgrading the current system.

Check google.com/products for some systems and even craigslist!

[Milwaukee]

I had one installed in my residence about 6 months ago.  The old tank was in the center of the basement using the chimney as the vent.  The tankless is now on the outside wall directly vented to the outside.  New lines were run and the $1,000 unit cost about $1500 total after install.

My water is always hot in perpetuity.  It does take about 30 seconds to get any hot water out of any pipe though.

My gas bills are down significantly it seems.

[Estrogen Hostage]

A big enough unit to handle that many apartments at once would be quite large, I'd guess 300-400k BTU's at least. That's a big unit that may be pushing the capability of all the gas pipes and the meter outside.

Water heaters are cheap and easy to work on. I wouldn't mess with success. I also don't think that the savings will be enough to offset any additional costs up front.

[Innes177]

Thanks for all the help! I can’t answer all the questions, but I replaced the 75 gal with a 75 gal.  The current ventilation through the chimney, from the basement through two stories, was not sufficient for an on-demand system.  On-demand required ventilation outside significantly quicker.  Furthermore, an on-demand system would require a 4x+ investment over the straight 75gal replacement.  I spent a little over $1300 without any rebates.  The savings off a newer system is expected to be minimal, but the investment is also minimal IMO considering the lifespan and headache.  Thanks!

[davewindsor]

Thanks for all the help! I can’t answer all the questions, but I replaced the 75 gal with a 75 gal.  The current ventilation through the chimney, from the basement through two stories, was not sufficient for an on-demand system.  On-demand required ventilation outside significantly quicker.  Furthermore, an on-demand system would require a 4x+ investment over the straight 75gal replacement.  I spent a little over $1300 without any rebates.  The savings off a newer system is expected to be minimal, but the investment is also minimal IMO considering the lifespan and headache.  Thanks!

$1300?  Why didn't you get a rental?  Does your local gas company not offer rentals?  I pay around $30 a month per tank for a full size one with warranty and if there's any issues with it the cost of sending a service guy it's free and replacement parts are included.  They'll even come after hours. 

Noisy venter fan?  No probs.  They came over and replaced it free.  On a few occasions when I owned one,  I called a plumber from the yellow pages for an issue and they ended up billing me $500 per service call.   I'll never own one again.

[Estrogen Hostage]

Thanks for all the help! I can’t answer all the questions, but I replaced the 75 gal with a 75 gal.  The current ventilation through the chimney, from the basement through two stories, was not sufficient for an on-demand system.  On-demand required ventilation outside significantly quicker.  Furthermore, an on-demand system would require a 4x+ investment over the straight 75gal replacement.  I spent a little over $1300 without any rebates.  The savings off a newer system is expected to be minimal, but the investment is also minimal IMO considering the lifespan and headache.  Thanks!

$1300?  Why didn't you get a rental?  Does your local gas company not offer rentals?  I pay around $30 a month per tank for a full size one with warranty and if there's any issues with it the cost of sending a service guy it's free and replacement parts are included.  They'll even come after hours. 

Noisy venter fan?  No probs.  They came over and replaced it free.  On a few occasions when I owned one,  I called a plumber from the yellow pages for an issue and they ended up billing me $500 per service call.   I'll never own one again.

$30/month? $500 service call??

I dunno. I wouldn't pay either.

[davewindsor]

Thanks for all the help! I can’t answer all the questions, but I replaced the 75 gal with a 75 gal.  The current ventilation through the chimney, from the basement through two stories, was not sufficient for an on-demand system.  On-demand required ventilation outside significantly quicker.  Furthermore, an on-demand system would require a 4x+ investment over the straight 75gal replacement.  I spent a little over $1300 without any rebates.  The savings off a newer system is expected to be minimal, but the investment is also minimal IMO considering the lifespan and headache.  Thanks!

$1300?  Why didn't you get a rental?  Does your local gas company not offer rentals?  I pay around $30 a month per tank for a full size one with warranty and if there's any issues with it the cost of sending a service guy it's free and replacement parts are included.  They'll even come after hours. 

Noisy venter fan?  No probs.  They came over and replaced it free.  On a few occasions when I owned one,  I called a plumber from the yellow pages for an issue and they ended up billing me $500 per service call.   I'll never own one again.

$30/month? $500 service call??

I dunno. I wouldn't pay either.

Like, you get a quote for something minor and they come over and say you need something else.

We'll have to call the utility provider to turn off your gas line because I just discovered your smart valve needs to replaced.  What does a smart valve do?  Oh, it's just a safety feature required by the new code that shuts off the gas line if the power goes out.  How much?  Just five hundred bucks and I just so happen to have one in the shop I can go get.

I want to dispute it and the invoice is not paid and goes to a collection agency that calls 10x a day that it needs to be paid or they will negatively report me to the credit bureau.  I want to dispute it in small claims court.  No, credit agencies apparently don't need to do that according to them.

A few months later, something else malfunctions on it.  Another $500 to fix.  WTF?!

Calling a plumber to repair a gas appliance is like have to call a tow truck when your car is stuck on the road.  They take advantage of your emergency situation, which is why you're better off getting a AAA membership for insurance in case your car needs to be towed or getting a rental gas appliance with it's all inclusive maintenance coverage.

[Estrogen Hostage]

You have different experiences than I do. I'm not trying to be critical. I just changed an element on a water heater. It cost $7 and took fine minutes. Last time I changed a water heater out it took an hour and cost $300. Once I checked an anode rod to see what it looked like and put it back in.  In two years with ten properties those are the sum of my hot water heater experiences.

[davewindsor]

You have different experiences than I do. I'm not trying to be critical. I just changed an element on a water heater. It cost $7 and took fine minutes. Last time I changed a water heater out it took an hour and cost $300. Once I checked an anode rod to see what it looked like and put it back in.  In two years with ten properties those are the sum of my hot water heater experiences.

Are you talking about a gas water heater or electric?  The heating system on a gas one is a burner, not an element.  The last thing I want is my basement blowing up, my insurance not covering it and the fire marshal giving me a hard time on my other rentals because the way I reinstalled the parts caused a gas leak that ended up blowing up my basement.

[Innes177]

To my knowledge, the local gas provider does not offer water heater rentals.  The $1300 replacement should keep me from having to worry about it for the next several years beside basic flushes. In Ohio, water heaters are expected to last 12+ years.   At $30 a month, the $1300 gets eaten up after 3.6 years, inside the period I would confidently expect to have no problems. 
There are a few things I don't do myself and those include working with gas, and exterminating rodents  in-doors larger than squirrels!