Great Article from Realty Times

[Swirlaze]

..

[luaprenraw]

i think it comes down to where the property you are buying is located. if you're buying it in an area that is not appreciating or very strong and typical marketing times are 6, 9 or even 12 months or more, maybe you can get it for 40% below TRUE market value if you are able to close in 30 days or less.  especially in areas of the rust belt (michigan, ohio, etc)

unfortunately, the properties you can buy in so-called hot areas (like calif) at 40% below market value are virtually nonexistent.

that very well may change in the near future though.

[rhm76384]

Hey,
     Mike: here is my cynicism: I was thinking about what I wrote: No matter what the human condition, no matter what the human circumstance, the lawyer has discovered some way to make money out of it.

     Swirlaze: Ralph Roberts is Senator Joseph McCarthy reincarnated this time to root out the evils of rei. Be afraid, very afraid.

Peace,
Richard

[propertymanager]

Richard,

I like your analogy between pre-foreclosure REIs and doctors with terminal patients.  In fact, you very concisely made the point that I was making.  In both of these cases the practicioner was not at fault for their client's problem.  The REI and the doctor simply profited from the situation while possibly easing the pain, but unfortunately not curing the problem.  

My bigger point is that people don't take up REI to "help" people.  If you asked a hundred newbies (before they were exposed to guru speak) why they were attracted to REI, none of them would answer with helping people.  I'm sure that everyone looks at real estate investing for the money (most of them thinking it is a get rich quick and easy scheme).  The gurus have come up with this "helping people" and "win-win" situation nonsense to help people struggle with working with pre-foreclosures.  If a person really wanted to help, they don't have to take all the equity, they could buy the house and give the owner back half of their equity.  How many people do that?    

I'm not saying that investors are doing anything wrong - quite the contrary.  I'm just saying that we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking this is some kind of noble undertaking.  Real Estate Investing is a business with the primary objective of making money.  Plain and simple.

Mike  

[charlesparrish]

I think the article is negative.  It shows that the writer is NOT a real estate investor.  He has been busy reading the hyped advertising from real estate seminar leaders trying to sell their programs.

A professional investor who re-cycles real estate (flip) does not depend on the local job market.  The pro understands and knows that he makes his profit when he CONTROLS the real estate and realizes it when it sells (re-cycles - flips it or assigns).  The Professional investor also would not be deceitful or dishonest.  The PRO is in this business for the long term.

The article is well written but FULL OF negatives and un-informed statements.  The writer should stick with what he knows best; working for a pay-check, not investing in real estate.

Charles Parrish

[rhm76384]

Hey,
     Mike: Have to agree with 95% of what you said. People don't do rei primarily to help people. Primarily they do it to make money. I think it is nice to view it as helping people, and I believe we do, but,  cynically speaking, it may be "potatoes"  "potahtoes".  The nobility of any undertaking, however, is not so much what one does, it is what one brings into the situation and what one takes away. The collecting of garbage is not what many of us would consider a noble undertaking, yet, if done with dignity and done well with a view to the larger picture (picture NYC during the garbage collectors strike) it can be seen as a noble venture.
     That said, I find little to which I disagree with you. Have a great weekend.
Peace,
Richard

[Swirlaze]

..

[propertymanager]

Swirlaze,

If REI principles work, they should work in ALL areas.

Your premise is incorrect.  Just because something works in one market does not mean it will work in every market.

It is possible to buy at well below market value in most of the red states - flyover country.  Just because this is true does not mean that it is possible in the blue states (coasts and big cities).

On the other hand, the blue states have had phenomenal appreciation over the past few years.  You could pick a house at random, pay full price, and still make a big profit.  Just because this was true in California, New York, and a few other markets does not mean that it was true in flyover country.  If I was counting on appreciation here in Ohio, I'd be living in one of my low income apartments and receiving food stamps.  

I believe that real estate investing will work in every market.  However, the strategies that may need to be employed in various areas to generate a profit can be quite different.

Mike

[LeiterCIA]

Richard,

I like your analogy between pre-foreclosure REIs and doctors with terminal patients.  In fact, you very concisely made the point that I was making.  In both of these cases the practicioner was not at fault for their client's problem.  The REI and the doctor simply profited from the situation while possibly easing the pain, but unfortunately not curing the problem.  

My bigger point is that people don't take up REI to "help" people.  If you asked a hundred newbies (before they were exposed to guru speak) why they were attracted to REI, none of them would answer with helping people.  I'm sure that everyone looks at real estate investing for the money (most of them thinking it is a get rich quick and easy scheme).  The gurus have come up with this "helping people" and "win-win" situation nonsense to help people struggle with working with pre-foreclosures.  If a person really wanted to help, they don't have to take all the equity, they could buy the house and give the owner back half of their equity.  How many people do that?    

I'm not saying that investors are doing anything wrong - quite the contrary.  I'm just saying that we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking this is some kind of noble undertaking.  Real Estate Investing is a business with the primary objective of making money.  Plain and simple.

Mike  

I find this sort of philosophical discussion fascinating.  Yes, I was drawn to REI after realizing that simply showing up to a job every day wasn't going to afford me the finer things, realizing that my ambition was being squandered in the wrong areas, and deciding to take charge of my life. I found out from reading several books on money, that real estate was the one area where ambition can turn a begger into a king.

So no, I didnt discover REI as a means to help my fellow man.  If that was my drive, I'd have joined Habitat for Humanity I suppose.

However, the fact that there are ways of assisting people in the process, is a nice plus -- and had REI been remotely about cheating another man out of what's rightfully his, then I for one would not do it.

REI, when it comes to aquiring proprty for less than thier market value, is like any other aspect of 'sales'.  There is high-presure sales where you pressure another to buy something he/she certainly doesn't need, which is basically fraud. Or there is true sales where you connect people with the goods/services they truly need, and you are paid in the process.

Surely, saving a person from foreclosure, is a service they need. And arent we charging them far less than they would lose in a foreclosure situation?

There is another potent myth plaguing this country which says that the rich will only get rich on the backs of another. I think this is a notion put out there by those who resent the rich for thier ambition.

Mike, I admire your brutal honesty, but on a purely philosophical level, I wonder if part of your theory doesnt play into this mentality.